D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[OB1]

WotC nailed this Monk. Even with the inevitable nerfs in a few places, the overall feel of this class finally matches the fantasy of playing a master of unarmed and unarmored combat.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I really think, nick needs a revision that sounds: you can't use your bonus action to attack on the same turn you use nick.

I think that'd run into awkwardness with other features. It's only the Rogue1/MonkX that gets a lot of mileage out of the combo, and that has more to do with how front-loaded all the classes are, because WotC is still pretending that their 3e-style multiclassing doesn't exist, even while they are integrating it into every class's write-up.

Similar to the rule where you can't use your action to cast a other levelled spell if you use your bonus action for a levelled spell.

They moved that limitation over to just the Quicken metamagic (where it should have been all along).

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Why are we saying deflect attacks is too strong?

Its design is just very 5e. Are you against someone who does one big hit? You are in no danger. Are you against 4 goblins? You are in so much more danger.

The base value of it is just very high, without scaling that well as you go up. That said, I love it encouraging Monks to find ways to isolate people during the usual skirmish of multi-person parties (positioning/movement matters!), and most solo type enemies have multiattack anyway (exactly to handle this sort of a thing), so... I'll just need to see it in action.

 

[Bolares]

Its design is just very 5e. Are you against someone who does one big hit? You are in no danger. Are you against 4 goblins? You are in so much more danger.

The base value of it is just very high, without scaling that well as you go up. That said, I love it encouraging Monks to find ways to isolate people during the usual skirmish of multi-person parties (positioning/movement matters!), and most solo type enemies have multiattack anyway (exactly to handle this sort of a thing), so I'll just need to see it in action.

The main reason I think it's not too high is 5e's design. Fights against solo enemies tend to be really really easy in 5e, and most monsters have multi attack so this will be really good against one attack and useless against the rest, so it will end up being completelly fine.

 

[Shardstone]

I think its ok if low level monks can neutralize single big hits, and if high level monks are decreasing incoming hits at a lesser degree. This forces higher level monks to explore their new bonus actions a bit more -- especially starting at 11th level, the monk is moving from thinking about deflecting and transitions to proactively moving with impunity around the battlefield to a variety of different effects.

Now, if Deflect Attacks did scale better, it'd probably be best if it scaled so that when you use the feature, you deflect 1 or 2 additional attacks before the beginning of your next turn. However, by the time you would need scaling, your martial arts die is already d10 or potentially d12. So, you'd be making it weaker earlier on, and buffing it way more than it already is from mid level and onward. So, I think it's best for deflect attacks to stay as it is, and to just graduate to different damage types higher up.

Alternatively, it'd be cool if they gained another potential reaction they could use, like to use Step of the Wind or Patient Defense as a reaction. Or maybe even allow the monk to spend a DP at the end of their turn to have two reactions instead of one starting from maybe 10th level or so.

 

[OB1]

Deflect Attacks is a great example of WotCs playtesting philosophy of making something that's a new feature OP to ensure that it get's thru survey results. I'd be shocked if Deflect Attacks isn't reduced to Martial Arts Die + Dex mod for the damage reduction in the final version, and maybe add your monk level only if you also have patient defense up at the same time.

 

[tomedunn]

Do you have the number of attacks by level?

I'd also be curious to see how close average monster attack damage is to median monster attack damage.

I have the data for both of those, but I probably won't have the time to do so for a few hours.

 

[James Gasik]

What's going to murder the Monk is effects that prevent them from using reactions...

 

[mellored]

What's going to murder the Monk is effects that prevent them from using reactions...

Those are gone.

Replaced by "can't take opportunity attacks".

 

[Asisreo]

Let's not forget monks can easily do decent damage while dodging, making them theoretically even tankier.

Also, for those that wanted to be a kunai-type ninja monk, you can do something like attack three times with your flurry, move a significant distance away, throw two kunai (daggers) that can be drawn and thrown at the same time, and if you used Darkness on an item you are wearing, you won't take opportunity attacks and you have constant advantage and the enemy has constant disadvantage.