D&D (2024) 2024 needs to end 2014's passive aggressive efforts to remove magic items & other elements from d&d

Okay so what did you have in mind?

What made you suggest connecting attunement to equipment rather than proficiency or level (or a completely static number, like 3)?
To clarify an important distinction I'm not sure is clear though... Not existing equipment, a purpose built type of equipment (ie like final fantasy's long preserved weirdly translated meaningless "bangle" than hybrid things like armor/bracers/rings/etc granting attunement points).

There are a couple high level reasons that really provide a lot of benefits & I've talked about a few of them already. A while back (months? years?) crawford said something like "what we were surprised to find out is that some groups don't like to blaze through those early levels & are happy just taking their time to develop things.. we did not design for that", I think that he might have also mentioned that something in the book ( he was playing up at the time (vrgtr?) was intended to help those groups. There's also wotc's obvious desire to have it both ways with magic items are core/not required/always a boon. That's 4 different groupings of playstyle plus shades in-between & they may or may not overlap but all of them are serviced in ways they need by not using a prof bonus or level linked value.


  • Shifting the ceiling for "attunement points" from being linked to an unstoppable one size fits all thing like prof bonus to being based on something equipment based allows for the individual GMs of all those groups above to cleanly tune the level of magic items that are right for the group & GM's game/campaign without ugly hacks & rebuilds or being stuck with a decision made early on before the group could see what was right for this campaign.
  • The GM is able to maintain or raise the ceiling as needed regardless of leveling speed & could hypothetically do so using a light touch that doesn't require nerfs or forced rebuilds on a PC by PC basis if there is a wide disparity in CharOp leading to a frustrating spread of build power. There is an added benefit where a very subpar PC who suddenly goes from needing the GM's help to being very heavily optimized in ways nobody expected the GM has avoided the traditional sort of problems that a single powerful magic item would have caused & the help once given can phase out on its ownsimply by not lifting that one PC's capacity items when/as much after they lift everyone else's.
  • The GM is able to use magic items for incentive more freely knowing that players might need to choose between a hypothetical scenario* like +1 weapon & +1 armor or holy avenger & off the rack armor and then insert those ceiling height bumps at points that make sense in the campaign by choosing when they award improved attunement point items rather than merely having PCs accumulate the experience or enough consecutive sessions to advance in level. That one is especially useful if the players are faffing about exploring the world or having fun killing time with sidequests or filler adventures & by extension digging into worldbuilding rather than focusing on what might often be called a main questline that might be severely disrupted & need significant retuning from the GM if PCs are suddenly far more powerful thanks to what a prof bonus linked point bump allows.
  • the ceiling can be adjusted to accommodate low medium & high magic campaigns in tandem with the quality/power of magic items the GM chooses to give out rather than the GM needing to do it through supply alone.
  • etc


* It's an example intended to be as clear as possible, not something built considering balance or whatever
 

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Sure, but again, don't assume every player will find it worth the hassle to maintain more than one loadout.

I mean, even if I could switch entire outfits (rings, armor, weapons, hats, magic underwear, socks etc) in just a minute, chances are I wouldn't bother.

In fact, the more convenient such a switch is made, the more I would be compelled to use multiple loadouts. And since that just seems like a lot of work, I'm actually quite happy with it taking hours to reattune yourself! :)
Having to swap character stats when swapping a magic item is a chore.

I do this anyway for the AC of most of my characters, such as for when the spells Mage Armor and Shield may or may not be in effect, along with other variables.

Perhaps an adjustment to the character sheet helps. There can be places for various temporary "special" bonuses that additionally have a location for the overall result while the temporary bonus is in effect.

Example, the "typical" AC is in the main space for it. But there would also be several "special" spaces where one can add alternate ACs depending on each magic item that may or may not be in play.
 

I really dug the PF2 playtest item that linked magic items to Charisma mod. You could have as many as your CHA mod minimum of 1. Made Charisma a more useful stat. Players went bananas though and killed it. Cha is apparently a favored dump stat of players.
That's one of the idea I thought about implementing for a simple dungeon grinder RPG.

You could link to a number of magic items equal to 1/3 your Charisma score. Artifacts cost double. So CHA 9-11 is 3 items. But a CHA 18 character could have 6 magic items linked to them.
 

Having to swap character stats when swapping a magic item is a chore.

I do this anyway for the AC of most of my characters, such as for when the spells Mage Armor and Shield may or may not be in effect, along with other variables.

Perhaps an adjustment to the character sheet helps. There can be places for various temporary "special" bonuses that additionally have a location for the overall result while the temporary bonus is in effect.

Example, the "typical" AC is in the main space for it. But there would also be several "special" spaces where one can add alternate ACs depending on each magic item that may or may not be in play.
That's nothing a VTT macro can't handle.
 

@tetrasodium

Am I understanding you right? You are saying, there can be a magic item, whose benefit is to grant the ability to attune a number of more magic items. So, for a DM who wants to run a "christmas tree" campaign, there is an easy way to do this, by introducing this "attuner" magic item into the campaign. Not a bad idea, and is an easy way to offer a "modular" option for this old school play style. Probably this magic item should be separate from the treasure list, and in a section dedicated to a many-items style of play with advice on how to balance and manage it.
 
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@tetrasodium

Am I understanding you right? You are saying, there can be a magic item, whose benefit is to grant the ability to attune a number of more magic items. So, for a DM who wants to run a "christmas tree" campaign, there is an easy way to do this, by introducing this "attuner" magic item into the campaign. Not a bad idea, and is an easy way to offer a "modular" option for this old school play style. Probably this magic item should be separate from the treasure list, and in a section dedicated to a many-items style of play with advice on how to balance and manage it.
Yea pretty much. I touched on some others too like unlinking acquisition of magic items & variable rates of growth but that (in both directions) is certainly one of the benefits of using an item based allotment The reason I linked to the ncu guide earlier was because it shows a two part item (belts with variable slots & chips with variable size) where both belts & chips rarely do anything other than hold chips or add to capacity
 

@tetrasodium

Am I understanding you right? You are saying, there can be a magic item, whose benefit is to grant the ability to attune a number of more magic items. So, for a DM who wants to run a "christmas tree" campaign, there is an easy way to do this, by introducing this "attuner" magic item into the campaign. Not a bad idea, and is an easy way to offer a "modular" option for this old school play style. Probably this magic item should be separate from the treasure list, and in a section dedicated to a many-items style of play with advice on how to balance and manage it.
In 3e there was an item, the Hand of the Mage, that had, as one of it's abilities, the ability to allow the user to benefit from a third ring.
 

Yea pretty much. I touched on some others too like unlinking acquisition of magic items & variable rates of growth but that (in both directions) is certainly one of the benefits of using an item based allotment The reason I linked to the ncu guide earlier was because it shows a two part item (belts with variable slots & chips with variable size) where both belts & chips rarely do anything other than hold chips or add to capacity
I am unfamiliar with the analogy. Here "belts and chips" equate to the "attuner magic item" determines the number of extra attunements, and a separate variable determines how high the tier of these extra magic items can be?
 

I am unfamiliar with the analogy. Here "belts and chips" equate to the "attuner magic item" determines the number of extra attunements, and a separate variable determines how high the tier of these extra magic items can be?
The "attunement points" thing that has been getting discussed for a while seems to have largely been a thing where items use a given number of points based on item power rather than just 2014 style 1 slot per 1 item.

I explained it earlier when I first linked to the example yesterday in this post & didn't realize it needed explaining again so quickly. We may be talking about attunement of magic items rather than spells, but it's not so complicated that it doesn't make a good example of an item responsible for nothing other than variable capacity of some form. In a nutshell ongoing spells affecting a character in that game use a given amount of the player's capacity. A belt is needed to equip the memory chips & determines how many individual memory chips it can hold. The important part is that they don't really do anything else.
 

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