D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Bedrockgames]

I'm just gonna pivot to another fandom of mine now that I'm done with chore and DM prep.

I am a fan of Pro Wrestling. Pro Wrestling has all types of wrestlers to root for.

• Alignment
  • Babyfaces
  • Tweeners
  • Heels
• Type
  • Giants
  • Powerhouses
  • Light Heayweights
  • Technicians
  • Striker
  • Cruiserweights
  • Freaks
• Card
  • Main Eventers
  • Midcarders
  • Tag Specialists
  • Jobbers
  • Women
  • Men

A big issue in the wrestling community for a while was that the bookers of the 2 main companies were biased as heck. They only booked certain types of wrestlers to get TV time, good feuds, and wins. They booked their favorite styles of wrestlers. There were other wrestlers of the styles they didn't like but they didn't get focus or time.

And that's basically what I see in D&D.
You want to see a powerhouse slam a guy who did them wrong and win the title but the booker wont get them a match over 5 minutes nor a title run over a month or so with the midcard belt.

To be clear here I don't play 5th edition so I am not exactly invested in it. But if this is about 5E, my impression is not that they were picking a particular style but that they are trying to find the middle ground where they can bring as many of the fandoms to the fold without losing anyone after so many people left during 4E. That is a big challenge because D&D players are picky. So to me what 5E looks like is a game heavily inspired by Basic D&D, which I think was a gamble that can work because that openness got a lot of old school fans (didn't bring me back but I do know a lot of old school players who loved 5E) and brought in fresh blood because it is open, free and easy. That was one of the big strengths of that openness in basic.

I am not saying you are wrong here. Perhaps your preferred style isn't being catered to. But I don't think it is because designers are only seeing their own preference. I think they are looking at the fan base and trying to find the magical formula for bringing as many into the fold as possible

 

[Minigiant]

To be clear here I don't play 5th edition so I am not exactly invested in it. But if this is about 5E, my impression is not that they were picking a particular style but that they are trying to find the middle ground where they can bring as many of the fandoms to the fold without losing anyone after so many people left during 4E. That is a big challenge because D&D players are picky. So to me what 5E looks like is a game heavily inspired by Basic D&D, which I think was a gamble that can work because that openness got a lot of old school fans (didn't bring me back but I do know a lot of old school players who loved 5E) and brought in fresh blood because it is open, free and easy. That was one of the big strengths of that openness in basic.

I am not saying you are wrong here. Perhaps your preferred style isn't being catered to. But I don't think it is because designers are only seeing their own preference. I think they are looking at the fan base and trying to find the magical formula for bringing as many into the fold as possible

They actually didn't get many old school fans. The vast majority of 5e fans are under 40 and didn't grow up with Basic.

5e was mostly made for/by 3e fans who didn't like the large mass of quickly escalating bonuses and trap choices but dislike the weak PC customization of 1e and 2e.

 

[Oofta]

They actually didn't get many old school fans. The vast majority of 5e fans are under 40 and didn't grow up with Basic.

5e was mostly made for/by 3e fans who didn't like the large mass of quickly escalating bonuses and trap choices but dislike the weak PC customization of 1e and 2e.

Yet it still worked well and added millions of players.

 

[hgjertsen]

Yet it still worked well and added millions of players.

Ultimately the old heads will have to accept that 5E is a completely different beast. WotC is not interested in contracting Zeb Cook to write a rulebook on some obscure feature, nor are they attempting to cover every niche interest and appeal to the largest possible spread of tables. Instead, they produce extremely basic, extremely wide appeal products and define the expectations of new players to fall in line with this broad, loose approach to product releases as the new normal.

 

[Bedrockgames]

They actually didn't get many old school fans. The vast majority of 5e fans are under 40 and didn't grow up with Basic.

I don't know the numbers here, but old school fans are not all over 40. The OSR has introduced a lot of people to old school play. But obviously Gen X is a pretty small generation. It wouldn't surprise me if gamers my age aren't massively represented in D&D. I do still see appeals to old school players. I think with Basic the gamble was that will bring in old school fans but also bring in new people because basic was very good at getting people who didn't play into RPGs.

5e was mostly made for/by 3e fans who didn't like the large mass of quickly escalating bonuses and trap choices but dislike the weak PC customization of 1e and 2e.

I don't know how true or untrue the by part of this is. But I do think you are right they were trying to reach 3E fans with 5E. They were an important group to bring back into the fold. At one point I was a 3E player and I left because 4E. While I didn't come back to it after 5E. I know plenty of people from my 3E days who did happily buy 5E even if they hated 4E. However I will add, a lot of them switched to pathfinder after the OGL fiasco

 

[Minigiant]

Yet it still worked well and added millions of players.

freak accident.

The hatred of crazy fast number scaling is almost universal among D&D fans.

WOTC lucked out that the current version of D&D when it hit mainstream consciousness have smol numbers for modifiers and instead of adding you rolled twice and take the big number.

But like l said, everything in 5e outside the basic ability check and adv/diasdv is a mess. That's why a large percentage of new fans grumble once they learn the more complex rules.

 

[Oofta]

freak accident.

The hatred of crazy fast number scaling is almost universal among D&D fans.

WOTC lucked out that the current version of D&D when it hit mainstream consciousness have smol numbers for modifiers and instead of adding you rolled twice and take the big number.

But like l said, everything in 5e outside the basic ability check and adv/diasdv is a mess. That's why a large percentage of new fans grumble once they learn the more complex rules.

Well, I've introduced quite a few people to D&D over the years, 5E is easier to pick up than other editions unless perhaps you go really old school but that was because we just ignored the truly weird rules like weapon speed. Was it luck? Maybe. It worked, that's all that matters.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't know the numbers here, but old school fans are not all over 40. The OSR has introduced a lot of people to old school play. But obviously Gen X is a pretty small generation. It wouldn't surprise me if gamers my age aren't massively represented in D&D. I do still see appeals to old school players. I think with Basic the gamble was that will bring in old school fans but also bring in new people because basic was very good at getting people who didn't play into RPGs.

WOTC stated last year

• 48% identify as millennials, 19% from Generation X and 33% from Generation Z
• The majority of current D&D players started with 5th Edition

dumb luck that when D&D became popular it is a simple, easy, and heroic edition.

 

[hgjertsen]

freak accident.

The hatred of crazy fast number scaling is almost universal among D&D fans.

WOTC lucked out that the current version of D&D when it hit mainstream consciousness have smol numbers for modifiers and instead of adding you rolled twice and take the big number.

But like l said, everything in 5e outside the basic ability check and adv/diasdv is a mess. That's why a large percentage of new fans grumble once they learn the more complex rules.

I don't think I would put the success of 5E down purely to luck, it was a very intentionally designed product meant to reinvigorate the brand, which was losing out to Pathfinder at the time, following the failures of 4th edition. 5E was a bold step towards very simple, very broad design. Gone are the days of Tomes of Vile Darkness and obscure 3.x splatbooks, the era of 5E was meant to sell a small number of products to every single player, as opposed to the marketing philosophy of 3.x, which was to sell a huge variety of products to cover the needs and desires of every conceivable player.

There's a very good reason why all the 5E splatbooks are extremely basic stuff that for the most part is just "more monster manual" or "more player's handbook". Those types of books appeal to every single 5E player.

 

[Bedrockgames]

WOTC stated last year

• 48% identify as millennials, 19% from Generation X and 33% from Generation Z
• The majority of current D&D players started with 5th Edition

dumb luck that when D&D became popular it is a simple, easy, and heroic edition.

That looks accurate to me. But I still think 19% isn't nothing. Also Millennials start at 1981. You are going to have some people in that demographic who started gaming in the 90s during the TSR era.

I don't know, I would say having a fairly simply system that seems inspired by some of that basic D&D openness is pretty ideal for a moment when D&D does catch on fire. I get there can be other explanations. But I also think it is hard to dismiss that 5E wasn't a huge success and a large amount of that success is probably dependent on the system. I mean yes cultural moments matter for sure, but it is a combination of factors. Either way, whatever the truth is there, my point was just that I believe the designers were probably thinking more in terms of how to capture segments of the gaming community than in terms of advancing their own personal preferences and gaming biases.