D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Oofta]

Many, many 3pps have published a "Book of Options". They're all over the place. A lot of them, in fact, rock (IMO).

So you have your solution(s). If I, or any group I have ever played with, needed them I would also have a solution. So would just about any table. What's the issue?

 

[Oofta]

But what does the game do to support character-driven play? The OP just provides a description of what it is.

Why does it need mechanical support if people are happy without it? For those people that want something more there's 3PP.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So you have your solution(s). If I, or any group I have ever played with, needed them I would also have a solution. So would just about any table. What's the issue?

Of course I have my solution. This isn't about me. It shouldn't be about you. My comment was a refutation of your claim that no 3pp publishes a "Book of Options" for 5e. That is demonstrably untrue.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why does it need mechanical support if people are happy without it? For those people that want something more there's 3PP.

Because the OP claimed the game supports all those styles. The fact that you and others don't want the game to provide support is irrelevant to the thread topic. Yet just like your popularity argument, you keep bringing it up.

 

[Bedrockgames]

But what does the game do to support character-driven play? The OP just provides a description of what it is.

Again I think there is a pretty big impasse here on what constitutes support and we have all made the same basic arguments over the course of the thread, so I don’t think there is much new that can be added to this part of discussion. But I think the OP seems to be talking more about Freeform RP and using basic GM-Player dynamics to work out character driven stuff. Which works fine in D&D and the game largely supports by not getting in the way. But as people have pointed out various editions have provided mechanical support. Reaction adjustment is a simple and elegant way to help manage f at octal interaction, without interfering with what characters say. Attribute rolls are extremely flexible and be used for all kinds of things that might come up in social interactions. NWPs covered plenty of ground, generally without Getting in the way of RP. But 2E had numerous supplements including a book that included a range of skills, and new NWPs in the various brown books. The complete bard got example gave you all kinds of material for figuring out the non combat aspects of the bard. A lot of that was info and flavor but info and flavor are support. 3E positively had stuff for covering social interaction. There was gather information, bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, etc. I didn’t make the shift to 4E so will let others tackle that one and same with 5e (have minimal experience playing this one).

 

[Minigiant]

And why this is a never-ending argument. Because the play styles happen all the time which means that they are supported. They just don't have the spelled out gamified total support you want.

Supported and Allowed are different things.

I can carry a toddler. = Supported.
I can let a toddler walk with me. = Allowed

Tech Support actively helps you with technical questions.

D&D doesn't support some playstyles it claims it does. It merely allows for these playstyles to be played. At best for these unsupported playstyles, there is inking of mechanics to create ones own support.

In some cases it's better that it weren't supported as the official support from TSR or WOTC was bad.

 

[Oofta]

Of course I have my solution. This isn't about me. It shouldn't be about you. My comment was a refutation of your claim that no 3pp publishes a "Book of Options" for 5e. That is demonstrably untrue.

Okay. So you have the options you want from a 3PP. Sounds like a solution to me.

Because the OP claimed the game supports all those styles. The fact that you and others don't want the game to provide support is irrelevant to the thread topic. Yet just like your popularity argument, you keep bringing it up.

It happens in games all the time so therefore it's supported. It's supported by skill checks, things like the Social Interactions and Chases (an example of skill-check like use of skills and abilities) sections of the DMG, XGtE has downtime rules off the top of my head. It's just not supported like you want. If the different styles were not supported they would not exist. They exist therefore they are supported which is something I can't say about, say, Monopoly.

 

[Oofta]

Supported and Allowed are different things.

I can carry a toddler. = Supported.
I can let a toddler walk with me. = Allowed

Tech Support actively helps you with technical questions.

D&D doesn't support some playstyles it claims it does. It merely allows for these playstyles to be played. At best for these unsupported playstyles, there is inking of mechanics to create ones own support.

In some cases it's better that it weren't supported as the official support from TSR or WOTC was bad.

There's nothing to add in response that hasn't been said a dozen times. I disagree.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Supported and Allowed are different things.

I can carry a toddler. = Supported.
I can let a toddler walk with me. = Allowed

Tech Support actively helps you with technical questions.

D&D doesn't support some playstyles it claims it does. It merely allows for these playstyles to be played. At best for these unsupported playstyles, there is inking of mechanics to create ones own support.

In some cases it's better that it weren't supported as the official support from TSR or WOTC was bad.

In a game design context, allowing by keeping a an area of the game open is support in my view. In fact it is crucial for making RPGs so powerful. The ability to say what you want to do, have the gm figure out how and why, enabled you to go beyond the rules. It is what makes an rpg different from a board or computer game. In areas like social interaction, allowing space for creativity and fun is support. Again though, every version of D&D has done mechanics for this part of the game. So there is support by making space but also literal mechanical support

 

[Oofta]

Again I think there is a pretty big impasse here on what constitutes support and we have all made the same basic arguments over the course of the thread, so I don’t think there is much new that can be added to this part of discussion. But I think the OP seems to be talking more about Freeform RP and using basic GM-Player dynamics to work out character driven stuff. Which works fine in D&D and the game largely supports by not getting in the way. But as people have pointed out various editions have provided mechanical support. Reaction adjustment is a simple and elegant way to help manage f at octal interaction, without interfering with what characters say. Attribute rolls are extremely flexible and be used for all kinds of things that might come up in social interactions. NWPs covered plenty of ground, generally without Getting in the way of RP. But 2E had numerous supplements including a book that included a range of skills, and new NWPs in the various brown books. The complete bard got example gave you all kinds of material for figuring out the non combat aspects of the bard. A lot of that was info and flavor but info and flavor are support. 3E positively had stuff for covering social interaction. There was gather information, bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, etc. I didn’t make the shift to 4E so will let others tackle that one and same with 5e (have minimal experience playing this one).

TSR tried to have a book for everything and it didn't work particularly well financially so now we have a system that supports 3PP to fill in the gaps. Just because there are no official rules that provide more support if you want it, does not mean the rules don't exist. I had a couple of the TSR era books that gave more details on this ... and never used them. I just never found them particularly useful for my game.