D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Minigiant]

WotC doesn't make new settings, at least not ones with any detail to them.

Well that's the problem and crux of the issue.

WOTC no longer hires designers with preferences beyond the traditional.

So they only give half baked settings and half baked variant rules.

So it you want to do something other than Hack and Slash or Monty Haul BDH, you have to play WOTC's underdeveloped settings and rules. Because as a player, you can't force a DM to run a niche unknown 3PP product.

 

[Imaro]

Well that's the problem and crux of the issue.

WOTC no longer hires designers with preferences beyond the traditional.

So they only give half baked settings and half baked variant rules.

So it you want to do something other than Hack and Slash or Monty Haul BDH, you have to play WOTC's underdeveloped settings and rules. Because as a player, you can't force a DM to run a niche unknown 3PP product.

No... as a player who wants to use 3pp material...you should find a DM who also wants to use it.

 

[Minigiant]

No... as a player who wants to use 3pp material...you should find a DM who also wants to use it.

Exactly.

That's the problem.

Playstyle changing 3PP material is both uncommon and obscure. You typically can't find a DM who knows they exist let alone run them.
You typically have to fine a DM who is running a whole other game system.

Everyone is making mostly making and supporting games for single playstyles.. Maybe 2 but sacrificing ability to branch out or be 33pp supported themselves like 4e or MCDMRPG or 13th age.

Rarely does anyone make a game with a core mix of D&D core gameplay with a good stiff bit of some other playstyle. And rarely do the popular 3PPs create playstyle twisting material. And if they do,it not easy to find. I know of 2 guys who use the A5e Adventurer Guide and 1who uses Flee Mortals.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Exactly.

That's the problem.

Playstyle changing 3PP material is both uncommon and obscure. You typically can't find a DM who knows they exist let alone run them.
You typically have to fine a DM who is running a whole other game system.

Everyone is making mostly making and supporting games for single playstyles.. Maybe 2 but sacrificing ability to branch out or be 33pp supported themselves like 4e or MCDMRPG or 13th age.

Rarely does anyone make a game with a core mix of D&D core gameplay with a good stiff bit of some other playstyle. And rarely do the popular 3PPs create playstyle twisting material. And if they do,it not easy to find. I know of 2 guys who use the A5e Adventurer Guide and 1who uses Flee Mortals.

I am reminded of my frustrations with the fact that we have the entire panoply of fiction to draw upon, but what do we see? A bazillion near-cookie-cutter faux-medieval pseudo-Tolkienesque schizotech Dung Ages settings with Maximized Fantasy Racism.

It's just so funny to me that the very DMs who put out such cookie-cutter worldbuilding are, very very very frequently, also the ones who complain about characters with cookie-cutter stats/builds/etc. or "samey" characters etc. ad nauseam.

 

[Minigiant]

I am reminded of my frustrations with the fact that we have the entire panoply of fiction to draw upon, but what do we see? A bazillion near-cookie-cutter faux-medieval pseudo-Tolkienesque schizotech Dung Ages settings with Maximized Fantasy Racism.

It's just so funny to me that the very DMs who put out such cookie-cutter worldbuilding are, very very very frequently, also the ones who complain about characters with cookie-cutter stats/builds/etc. or "samey" characters etc. ad nauseam.

A couple dozen RPGs with a bazillion near-cookie-cutter faux-medieval pseudo-Tolkienesque schizotech Dung Ages settings with Maximized Fantasy Racism and the same panoply of classes pulled from the same group of pre-Y2K sources.

This might be why 3PP product aren't used widely in the community and why many playstyles aren't actively supported.

Everyone keeps making the same things with a slight spin.

 

[Hussar]

Like I said....most gamers leave 5E after a time....no never game again. But there is always enough of an flow of new gamers in to replace them.

That's my point though. If there is a stream of gamers who are leaving the hobby, but the hobby population has grown by leaps and bounds over the past 10 years, then the number of new players must be outnumbering the numbers that are leaving. And if those leaving 5e aren't leaving the hobby, but rather are picking up other games, why aren't those other games growing by large amounts? It's not like there's suddenly massive numbers of people playing other games.

Your point doesn't seem to hold a lot of water. I'd buy it if the gaming population was relatively stable, but, it isn't. By all measures, we're seeing far, far more gamers today than we ever have. So, if there's these masses of gamers leaving 5e, then where are they going?

 

[Older Beholder]

I enjoyed reading the article and agree with the OP.

I've enjoyed playing almost everything on this list.
Also, I've played almost all these things in 5E with 2 different DM's running their first ever campaign.
One DM has bought every book and used official adventures the whole time (level 1 -20), the other has never owned a single D&D book and has homebrewed his setting and all his adventures (Level 1-12 currently, still going).

Both have been able to run many of the styles on this list without any trouble at all.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

That's my point though. If there is a stream of gamers who are leaving the hobby, but the hobby population has grown by leaps and bounds over the past 10 years, then the number of new players must be outnumbering the numbers that are leaving.

Though this may or may not be a good thing. The term for this in the MMO sphere is "churn." A game with high population maintained by churn, rather than retention, is like a fire burning through its fuel at an unsustainable rate. Sooner later, the pool of interested people dries up, and churn necessarily drops. When you're looking at millions of people, that's...less than good, shall we say.

And if those leaving 5e aren't leaving the hobby, but rather are picking up other games, why aren't those other games growing by large amounts? It's not like there's suddenly massive numbers of people playing other games.

I have not personally seen any evidence that they aren't leaving the hobby. Which entails a rather dark question:

Is 5e succeeding by driving people away from TTRPGs for good, just at a slower rate than it is bringing people to itself? Because if that is true, that's a huge problem. There are only finitely many people to bring in.

Your point doesn't seem to hold a lot of water. I'd buy it if the gaming population was relatively stable, but, it isn't. By all measures, we're seeing far, far more gamers today than we ever have. So, if there's these masses of gamers leaving 5e, then where are they going?

I thought the answer was obvious. They aren't going anywhere, if "where" refers to other systems. They're leaving the hobby entirely, not playing any system. "Oh, I guess D&D just isn't for me." Never taking a second glance, even at the other flavors of D&D, let alone the smorgasbord of TTRPGs out there.

 

[hgjertsen]

Though this may or may not be a good thing. The term for this in the MMO sphere is "churn." A game with high population maintained by churn, rather than retention, is like a fire burning through its fuel at an unsustainable rate. Sooner later, the pool of interested people dries up, and churn necessarily drops. When you're looking at millions of people, that's...less than good, shall we say.

It's very sad to see this sort of thing (potentially) happen with TTRPGs. In video games, it at least makes sense that the rate at which the development company can produce content (or, more often, does produce content) is outpaced by the progression rate of voracious players, leading to a continuous cycle of players becoming enamored with the game, grinding out everything, and then leaving. Really sad when the same happens in TTRPGs because the possibilities are endless.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It's very sad to see this sort of thing (potentially) happen with TTRPGs. In video games, it at least makes sense that the rate at which the development company can produce content (or, more often, does produce content) is outpaced by the progression rate of voracious players, leading to a continuous cycle of players becoming enamored with the game, grinding out everything, and then leaving. Really sad when the same happens in TTRPGs because the possibilities are endless.

Which would be one of the (many) reasons why games need to be designed with serious care and attention.

If you don't support your brand-new players enough, they'll just leave before they can get invested, and the game cannot grow (whicn necessarily means it will die.) If you don't support your long-term players enough, they'll leave for greener pastures, albeit at a slower rate (because breaking away from a game you're invested in is hard).

But many games now are realizing that there is a critical middle part between "brand-new" and "long-term." It is genuinely good to make a game widely accessible, but too many companies have mistakenly done the trivial, damaging form of accessibility, vacancy. If there is nothing to learn, then of course it is easy to learn, but it's also easy to leave. I have seen multiple video games (not just MMOs) collapse and die as multiplayer experiences because the creators removed all possible challenge or rigor that might hinder someone's entry, and in the process, remove all possible things that might convince someone to stick around because there is no feeling of growth and mastery.

I fear 5e has coupled that with terrible support for the critical DM role specifically, and lackadaisical support for the intended play experience unless you have an already-good DM at the helm. That it has thus set itself up for a wave of new players who get in, get a couple of campaigns in, see some problem or other, and then based on that decide "nah, not really for me."