Indeed - and that's not what I was saying.
A game either allows for/utilizes freeform roleplaying or it doesn't. Allowing for/utilizing freeform roleplay doesn't mean that such play is the entirety of the game, it merely means that at times when freeform roleplay makes sense (e.g. pretty much any low-or-no-stakes in-character conversation with an NPC or any conversation between PCs) the game system neither gets in the way nor has any say as to the outcome.
As you should know by now, the degree of freeform roleplaying really depends on the system and game.
If we were playing a PbtA game, the game rules would generally not care about our freeform roleplaying for a myriad of things (e.g., climbing, talking, sneaking, etc.)
until certain conditions are met by the actions of the PCs in the fiction that triggers a Move. These triggered conditions are when the rules demand a roll or a clarification of the fiction. Here I would note that there would be things here that you would potentially call for a roll in your game that a particular PbtA game may not care about and so no rolls are needed in the latter. So the rules are hypothetically getting in the way more often in your game than in a given PbtA game.
For example, let's take a look at a few different PbtA games because the number of socially-oriented moves differ between them.
Stonetop (a Dungeon World derivative)
PERSUADE (vs. NPCs)
When you press or entice an NPC, say what you want them to do (or not do). If they have reason to resist, roll +CHA: on a 10+, they either do as you want or reveal the easiest way to convince them; on a 7-9, they reveal something you can do to convince them, though it’ll likely be costly, tricky, or distasteful.
This is
Persuade (vs. NPCs). There is a separate Move for
Persuade (vs. PCs). Apart from some cases with moves
Seek Insight or the
Interfere Move, which is PC vs. PC, the two Persuade Moves are really the only basic social moves in the game.
So what are the conditions in the fiction that have to be met in order to trigger this Move? (1) A PC has to press or entice an NPC and tell them what they want them to do (or not do). (2) The NPC has a reason to resist. So what if the first condition isn't met? We don't roll. What if the second condition isn't met? We don't roll.
Let us say that both conditions are met. Then we roll. But let's also remember something about PbtA games. Something always happens when we roll. Nothing can't happen in these particular cases. Rolling comes with risk and danger of the GM making a hard move as a result of a poor roll. So "nothing" may happen when you roll a Persuasion check in D&D. That won't be the case in PbtA. So what can happen if we succeed on our best case scenario of a 10+ roll? The GM may decide that the NPC is persuaded by the PC; however, the PC is still not guaranteed that the NPC will do what they want. Instead, the NPC will reveal the easiest way to convince them. So this social situation becomes about the PCs gaining pertinent information and making choices on how they would like to proceed.
How about in mixed result of 7-9 roll? In these cases, the NPC will reveal something the PCs can do to convince them; however, it will be costly, tricky, or distasateful. So again this is about giving the PCs information and choices about how to proceed in this social situation.
And what about a 6- roll? It's GM hard move time.
Avatar Legends, in contrast, has more social moves than Stonetop. But it's a roleplaying game that is emulating
Avatar: The Last Airbender and
Avatar: Legend of Korra, which are both heavily social series where the social interactions between characters is the beating heart of the drama. In fact, most of the basic moves are social-oriented. Combat Exchanges have separate rules. Although we are talking about freeform social roleplay, I would note that Avatar Legends makes it clear when to do a Combat Exchange and when not!
• If there is no uncertainty about the fight, keep the conversation moving.
• If there is uncertainty but it’s not an interesting fight in any way—nobody at the table is interested in the actual fight—then resolve it with the appropriate basic moves.
• If there is uncertainty and someone at the table is interested in the actual fight, resolve it using the exchange system.
So there are a fair number of potential scenarios where the PCs can just narrate that they take out some guards with their bending or whatever. There is either no uncertainty in the former situation and/or it's not actually interesting. So no rolls or moves are called. It's freeform, baby!
So what are the potential social situations that Avatar Legends cares enough about to trigger Moves?
Assess a Situation (certain social occasions),
Intimidate,
Plead,
Guide and Comfort, and
Trick. But let's just take a look at
Plead, which is probably the closest to
Persuade (vs. NPC) from Stonetop.
Avatar Legends
PLEAD
When you plead with an NPC who cares what you think for help, support, or action, roll with Harmony. On a 7–9, they need something more—evidence that this is the right course, guidance in making the right choices, or resources to aid them—before they act; the GM tells you what they need. On a 10+, they act now and do their best until the situation changes.
So what conditions have to be met first before the rules get in the way? (1) The PC has to be pleading with an NPC for help, support, or action. (2) The NPC has to care what the PC thinks. What if the PC is pleading to an NPC for something other than help, support, or action? Don't roll. What if the NPC doesn't care what the PC thinks? Don't roll. What if the cost is small or insignificant? Don't roll. What if the NPC is already willing? Don't roll. These latter points are explicit in the explanation of this move:
This move is for more than just calling in a favor or asking for them to back you up. If you ask an NPC for something small (especially something that doesn’t cost them anything), or request help that they’re already willing to give, you don’t trigger this move. If they’re reluctant to assist, the request could cost them or put them in danger, or other things at play might cause them to resist, then you need to plead with them to get their help.
The other important thing about triggering this move is that the NPC needs to care what you think. If you try to convince an utterly hostile NPC, an NPC who doesn’t take you seriously, or an NPC whose life and wellbeing isn’t affected by you in any significant way, you can’t plead with them. To get an NPC to care about what you think, you need to have an established relationship or do something to make a good impression—you might be their mentor or family member or demonstrate your competence through action or by helping them.
But again, let's say that we can Plead with the NPC. What happens then? We know that if there is a poor result with a 6- roll, then the GM is at their leisure to make a hard move. In our best case scenario of 10+, the NPC agrees to act now and do their best until the situation changes.
On a 10+, however, they don’t need any reassurances—they do what you ask right away to the best of their abilities. Remember, if the situation changes, their response might change as well! If things become dangerous or don’t work out, they may revoke that support. If you plead with a village elder to change an old tradition and you get a 10+, you might convince them to try it for now but they’ll go back on the agreement if it goes badly for any reason.
So the game makes it clear that their support is not immutable. It just means that the friendly innkeeper will agree to hide you from the enemy Fire Nation troops for now, BUT if things go bad or complicated for that innkeeper, then they may change their mind and rescind that support. Or the friendly minor lord agreed to support you with some of their troops, but that was BEFORE your subsequent actions caused destruction in their town.
Okay, but what happens on a 7-9 roll? It's much the same as Persuade (vs. NPC) in Stonetop.
[the NPC] need something more—evidence that this is the right course, guidance in making the right choices, or resources to aid them—before they act; the GM tells you what they need.
It's about the GM/NPC giving the PCs information, costs, and hard choices to make. The GM has to think of complications that may exist and
honestly communicate that to the PCs. All of this must be roleplayed out. If we looked at other social-oriented Moves in Avatar Legends, there are likewise stipulations and conditions that first must be met. One can't just declare a move and roll to win.
The important takeaway experience that I had actually playing these games - yes, actual play experience - I can say that it's nigh impossible not to roleplay in these games. These are fiction first games. You have to describe what your character is doing. You have to do things in the fiction. You have to roleplay. The moves are triggered when conditions are met. Yes, the rules may get in the way then, but those rules are there to arbitrate and facilitate these uncertain significant situations that the game cares about, clarify the stakes clear, bind the GM and players to honest roleplay, and keep the roleplay of the table moving.
And yes, I'll posit that a system that doesn't allow these conversations/nteractions to happen without inserting itself, by doing so makes itself a poorer RPG.
I'll posit that this argument reeks both of OneTrueWayism and BadWrongFun about TTRPGs and therefore we can safely say that it is baloney and thus be reasonably ignored.
