D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Hussar]

I do have a thought on this. Many of the new players are young, and if memory serves correctly, we didn't really gravitate towards those species until we were a bit older. The rationale for this is people want to play something striking, beautiful, grand, and not cute or esoteric. So maybe just like the demographic of D&D has changed, perhaps that has been the cause for those two species to have lower usage? (This is just a guess, including the demographic part.)

But, these races have always been the bottom two. Since the days of AD&D. They've never been popular.

Do you have a source to cite here?

Not being snarky, I tried to find something more current than 2017 but my google fu failed. I am genuinely curious.

From the latest D&D Beyond stats (2023) 2023 Unrolled: A Look Back at a Year of Adventure

 

[Hussar]

Yes, the player's handbook will always have a least and second least popular species. That's what ranking does.

But, despite claims that I "hate halflings", if an option has ALWAYS been the least and second least popular, perhaps, and, I'm just spitballing here, maybe, we might want to consider new options? I know that's a radical idea and apparently it's only because I hate halflings, but, it doesn't seem all that bizarre to me to think that new options might better succeed where the old options have failed to gain any real traction in FIFTY YEARS of the hobby.

Considering that the two new options that they added in recent years have proven more popular than most of the traditional options. Now, if Tieflings and Dragonborn were dragging the bottom of the list, I'd be saying we should replace them instead because obviously, they didn't manage to gain any traction despite being new. But, the new options have rocketed to near the top of the list, while the two options that have been part of every single PHB since AD&D, have never actually been more than an "also ran".

I mean, good grief, "Custom Lineages" despite being buried in a single supplement - Tasha's - and thus requires the user to pay for that book before using it on D&D Beyond, isn't all that far behind gnomes in total numbers. Imagine what will happen when Custom Lineages makes it into the PHB?

 

[Neonchameleon]

To loop around a little to the original premise of this thread, if you were to add a new subclass for the three species mentioned in the title what theme would you add for each of them?

Dwarf - Stonesinger. Same idea as you but Earthbender has enough power for an entire class.

Halfling - what I might want would be either Ghostwise Halfling or a darker version of the halfling that turns the cooking up to 11 and can eat anything (reminiscent of Warhammer Halflings).

The problem with orcs is that we also have goliaths sitting in the "large burly guy" spot. And orcs aren't known for magic.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But, these races have always been the bottom two. Since the days of AD&D. They've never been popular.


From the latest D&D Beyond stats (2023) 2023 Unrolled: A Look Back at a Year of Adventure

Mate. The chart you inserted in your post literally shows halflings as seventh, ahead of half-orcs and gnomes. So not in the bottom two.

 

[Hussar]

Mate. The chart you inserted in your post literally shows halflings as seventh, ahead of half-orcs and gnomes. So not in the bottom two.

OFFS. "Mate", absolute pedantic crap is not exactly the slam dunk you think it is.

Since half-orc is already getting ejected from the PHB in favor of orc, well, something has already been done right?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

OFFS. "Mate", absolute pedantic crap is not exactly the slam dunk you think it is.

This is why it seems you hate halflings. You said your opinion was based on facts, but when it is pointed out that the facts don't support your case you can't admit that you were wrong.

Since half-orc is already getting ejected from the PHB in favor of orc, well, something has already been done right?

They're dropping the hybrids as separate species. But I don't think most people care that much whether it is half or full orc. In any case, that has nothing to do with halflings, as they're not that sort of half species.

 

[Hussar]

This is why it seems you hate halflings. You said your opinion was based on facts, but when it is pointed out that the facts don't support your case you can't admit that you were wrong.



They're dropping the hybrids as separate species. But I don't think most people care that much whether it is half or full orc. In any case, that has nothing to do with halflings, as they're not that sort of half species.

No. It's because people can't simply accept that halflings just aren't that popular. They've been at the bottom of the ranking (or very nearly) since pretty much day 1. Yet, when I point this out, I'm told that "facts don't support your case". Despite the fact that it's been shown repeatedly that halflings score just a bit better than gnomes and maybe half-orcs, depending on which poll we want to look at.

At no point have halflings EVER been popular. THIS is the point I keep making and for some reason I keep getting told I'm absolutely wrong and that I only hate halflings. It's utterly bizarre since at no point have I ever been accused of disliking gnomes despite me saying exactly the same thing about gnomes.

Show me a single example from D&D, in any edition, where halflings are popular. Why do you think 4e tried to rewrite halfligns? Why do you think 3e rewrote halflings? Why were halflings rewritten to be Kender in Dragonlance despite every other race staying exactly standard?

Every setting rewrites halflings - Eberron, Dark Sun, Etc. WHy? Because they are so massively popular?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yes, the player's handbook will always have a least and second least popular species. That's what ranking does.

And, oddly enough, neither of them are halflings. And it wasn't halflings that were unpopular enough sixteen years ago to be dropped from the 4e PHB. For that matter I'm pretty sure the bottom three have been fairly consistently in that order for decades.

For that matter I wonder if other than tieflings and dragonborn entering and kicking dwarves out of the top five there has ever been much volatility or whether it has always been humans in first, elves and half elves next, then dwarves, then halflings, then half-orcs and finally the constantly-rewritten gnomes.

Edit: and no one says halflings are the most popular. They do however have a strong niche and to justify kicking them for popularity you need to literally cut out a third of the races in the PHB. Which is why this looks like a quixotic crusade.

Edit 2: Eberron doesn't rewrite halflings. House Ghallanda is about as halflingy as halflings get. It just has another group of halflings to have some variety. Dark Sun does rewrite halflings because Dark Sun is divergent and excludes divine magic and rewrites arcane. And vanilla halflings do not fit the themes of Dark Sun's being on the edge any more than Asimar would.

 

[Scott Christian]

But, these races have always been the bottom two. Since the days of AD&D. They've never been popular.

Then maybe the majority of D&D players have always been on the younger side. That would still validate my hypothesis. Again, no idea if it is correct, but this fact doesn't disprove it.

 

[Hussar]

Then maybe the majority of D&D players have always been on the younger side. That would still validate my hypothesis. Again, no idea if it is correct, but this fact doesn't disprove it.

Except for the fact that humans are, and always have been, number one. So the notion that people start with "esoteric" and "beautiful" doesn't really work. Blaming the "youths" for this seems a pretty tall order.

In any case, the reason is largely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. But, then again, I'm not going to get sucked into this deep, dark rabbit hole again.