D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[CreamCloud0]

Personally I’m still of the opinion that one of the most damaging thing Wizards did to people picking halflings and gnomes is the disadvantage for small creatures using heavy weapons, it creates this soft ban on making most kinds of STR martials with them as all the strongest martial weapons are heavy and GWM, generally considered one of the most powerful martial feats, requires heavy property weapons to use, the ‘small character with HUGE weapon’ is a very popular concept but it’s just not mechanically viable in 5e

Also being ‘some of the least popular of the PHB species’ is kinda setting a false expectation imo, they’re still finishing well above a good chunk of other species, it’s like saying they’re the least popular of the top 10, yeah okay maybe they’re not number 1, 2 or 3 but they’re still reaching the top 10

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Personally I’m still of the opinion that one of the most damaging thing Wizards did to people picking halflings and gnomes is the disadvantage for small creatures using heavy weapons, it creates this soft ban on making most kinds of STR martials with them as all the strongest martial weapons are heavy and GWM, generally considered one of the most powerful martial feats, requires heavy property weapons to use, the ‘small character with HUGE weapon’ is a very popular concept but it’s just not mechanically viable in 5e

I mean that is literally the last remnant of their size mattering at all.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Personally I’m still of the opinion that one of the most damaging thing Wizards did to people picking halflings and gnomes is the disadvantage for small creatures using heavy weapons, it creates this soft ban on making most kinds of STR martials with them as all the strongest martial weapons are heavy and GWM, generally considered one of the most powerful martial feats, requires heavy property weapons to use, the ‘small character with HUGE weapon’ is a very popular concept but it’s just not mechanically viable in 5e

Also being ‘some of the least popular of the PHB species’ is kinda setting a false expectation imo, they’re still finishing well above a good chunk of other species, it’s like saying they’re the least popular of the top 10, yeah okay maybe they’re not number 1, 2 or 3 but they’re still reaching the top 10

given the other options are non phb options that is not saying much

 

[Hussar]

Tockworth’s Clockworks (Keys/Golden Vault), To Catch a Falling Star, Baldur’s Gate 3, Out of the Abyss. That’s four.

Name three that prominently feature Dragonborn.

To Catch a Falling Star? Never heard of it. Not doubting, but, just never heard of it. Isn't that the new one that's coming out?

Baldur's Gate 3 isn't a module.

But, it's not needed for Dragonborn because Dragonborn are one of the most popularly played races.

So, it's not mechanics that drive this - after all DB are hardly a strong race, nor are they paired with one of the most popular classes, like halflings are.

If halflings and gnomes are actually playing a really prominent role in adventures, and I'll take your word that they are, then, what more can be done to actually entice players to play them? After all, gnomes are barely being played at all. Halflings aren't exactly taking the world by storm.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

given the other options are non phb options that is not saying much

Halflings were above the half-orcs in the last survey.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Halflings were above the half-orcs in the last survey.

given half-orc no longer exist in the upcoming phb that is going to mean nothing

 

[Crimson Longinus]

given half-orc no longer exist in the upcoming phb that is going to mean nothing

given the other options are non phb options that is not saying much

I mean for the thing you literally just said it obviously does. The comparison was about the current situation.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

To Catch a Falling Star? Never heard of it. Not doubting, but, just never heard of it. Isn't that the new one that's coming out?

Sorry, I meant When a Star Falls (UK4). It's due to be reprinted/remade in Quests from the Infinite Staircase.

Baldur's Gate 3 isn't a module.

No, it's been played by far more people than ever played any module.

Where's my list of Dragonborn modules?

 

[Hussar]

Sorry, I meant When a Star Falls (UK4). It's due to be reprinted/remade in Quests from the Infinite Staircase.

No, it's been played by far more people than ever played any module.

Where's my list of Dragonborn modules?

It's not really helping your point though. If halflings and gnomes are featuring in games that are played by far more people than any module, and halflings and gnomes are still not being played in D&D, then, well... maybe it's time to try something new? I was suggesting that maybe if the game featured gnomes and halflings more prominently, it might help to entice players to try the races. But, since you're saying they're already prominently featured, then, well, nothing's ever going to help them.

Now, if Dragonborn were sucking the bottom, then I would make the same suggestion that dragonborn shoudl be more promently featured. But, since they don't need help, why bother.

 

[TwoSix]

It's not really helping your point though. If halflings and gnomes are featuring in games that are played by far more people than any module, and halflings and gnomes are still not being played in D&D, then, well... maybe it's time to try something new? I was suggesting that maybe if the game featured gnomes and halflings more prominently, it might help to entice players to try the races. But, since you're saying they're already prominently featured, then, well, nothing's ever going to help them.

Now, if Dragonborn were sucking the bottom, then I would make the same suggestion that dragonborn shoudl be more promently featured. But, since they don't need help, why bother.

No amount of rules tinkering or greater representation can make gnomes and halflings not short. And as long as gnomes and halflings are short, they're going to lag behind in their pick rate.

As a general rule, people want their in-game avatars to be big and strong or kinda sexy. People will choose some of the anthro races for "fun" characters, or pick a race with some novel mechanical benefit (like warforged, or tortles, or fairies). The races that don't fit those characteristics will fall by the wayside.

I like halflings, personally, but the only times I've ever really chosen them for a PC was in 3.5 when they were one of the best mechanical options for casters (strongheart halflings got a feat at 1st level AND had the defensive bonuses of small size). And if you make an aesthetically unpleasing race popular by making their features overpowered, that just causes grumbling.