Savage Worlds vs DnD 5e

[dbm]

Personally I would say it supports long campaigns very well. The characters are pretty resilient if the players are not ridiculously gung-ho. Bennies are a great safety net and as the GM you can choose to be generous in handing those out.

Character development is pretty solid. The rank system means that characters tend to develop horizontally (gaining a broader range of abilities) as well as vertically (building up their powers) and that is one of the things which helps flatten the power curve.

A non-obvious benefit for longer term gaming is that the characters are more broadly and flexibly capable than is common in D&D. That comes in large part from the Wild Dice but also the flexibility of the skill system. When I play D&D I tend to play Bards since I like flexible characters. In Savage Worlds all character are more flexible so that limitation is non-existent.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Oh no. No. No. That card initiative is so time consuming.

This is a take that I find to be completely valid. Compared to D&D5e, it can be! That's for sure.

But, for us, it's not that much more time consuming and we find the juice to be worth the squeeze. And since, in Savage Worlds, there tend to be fewer so-called "filler" combats and thus, for us, fewer combats, that difference in time comes out in the wash.

And that's where it really matters, I guess.

Yes, 5e can be faster (and usually is). But we find 5e initiative... well... boring. To the point where we wonder why it's even there. On the other hand, we find the added complexity of SW's card initiative to be part of the combat excitement.

It really breaks down to play styles and expectations. I'm a little sad to hear it didn't work for your group but more than a little happy that you had a game to go to that meets your needs and expectations!

Today's RPG world is so full of options that there is likely to be a game that tickles whatever itch we have!

Huzzah!

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Remember: This is all my opinion and will differ between groups.

How does Savage Worlds work for long campaigns, and deep character story arcs and character leveling?

Savage Worlds works about the same for long campaigns in that the characters pick up new powers, abilities, etc. growing in strength and versatility as things go along.

The difference in SW and 5e is that 5e tends to have bigger jumps in power with each advancement in level that SW does. SW characters tend to start more competent than 5e characters and grow slower. So SW characters in 5e terms would be something like Level 3 to Level 12-ish over the same timespan of 5e characters going from Level 1 to Level 20.

As another poster mentioned, SW characters tend to be more broadly competent than 5e characters but that can be seen as a good or bad thing. Niche Protection is much, much softer in SW with characters in a party having overlapping skills and competencies. The "Thief" character will be better at picking locks than the "Fighter" character in a meaningful way, but the "Fighter" will still be able to do some lockpicking, if not well or as good as the "Thief," if that makes sense.

We like that, but I've had players though who HATED having other players being able to step into their niche from time to time.

In addition, it can be a little more complex and daunting to "level up" a SW character than a 5e character. 5e characters tend to have listed what they get when they hit a new level. With SW characters, you can spend your advance in a plethora of ways that can cause a little bit of choice paralysis.

However, I find that this lessens or disappears with most players after the 3rd or 4th time they advance their characters.

 

[dbm]

A couple of things I have seen in our groups when it comes to advancement and niches.

Characters will often start out fairly similar, especially if the range of ‘important’ skills in a campaign is small. If all that matters is fighting, notice, stealth, and ranged then all characters can afford to keep those skills rising and they will superficially look similar. If the campaign has a broader focus and you need someone in the party to know academics and another to know science, someone good at persuasion and another at intimidation and even an another performance. If you need a driver, a pilot and a person good at repair then suddenly there are lots of skills that will be valuable and the charters will tend to diverge.

But even if the characters should are very similar it is actually their edges which are more defining. The characters might all have the same d10 in fighting but if one has Martial Warrior, another has Block and Counter Attack, while the third has Frenzy and Giant Killer, they will all be radically different in play, Edges are what strongly differentiate characters and there are too many great ones to buy them all.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Edges are what strongly differentiate characters and there are too many great ones to buy them all.

Oh, gosh. I really should have mentioned this! Thanks for bring it up.

I agree with DBM in that it's edges that really differentiate characters. (Think sorta kinda Feats but not really. But close). Depending what is picked characters with similar skills and attributes can play very, very differently. It's made all Thief campaigns and all Star Wars Stormtrooper campaigns possible and so enjoyable!

 

[Retreater]

Re: long campaigns.
I've found SW to be far "swingier" than most other RPGs. So your big bad can be dropped in a single round. A "high level" PC can be dropped by a goblin mook. The only way to level the threats are using metacurrency (Bennies) - which feels kinda lousy to do to keep the villains alive (like you're snatching victory from the players.)
There are setting rules - like the maximum number of wounds you can inflict in a single turn is 3 - but by that point if you're taking a -3 death spiral penalty on everything, you're probably going down next round anyway.
And then you have -4 on your roll to not permanently die.
It's really a punishing and brutal system for long term campaigns.
(Sorry if I'm being negative here. I do feel like criticism has its place when we're asked our opinions about a system. I have played and run SW for years now - even recently. I own most of their products. I'm not coming from the position of a guy who played the game once at a convention ten years ago. You may disagree with me, but these are real points.)

 

[AK81]

Remember: This is all my opinion and will differ between groups.

Savage Worlds works about the same for long campaigns in that the characters pick up new powers, abilities, etc. growing in strength and versatility as things go along.

The difference in SW and 5e is that 5e tends to have bigger jumps in power with each advancement in level that SW does. SW characters tend to start more competent than 5e characters and grow slower. So SW characters in 5e terms would be something like Level 3 to Level 12-ish over the same timespan of 5e characters going from Level 1 to Level 20.

As another poster mentioned, SW characters tend to be more broadly competent than 5e characters but that can be seen as a good or bad thing. Niche Protection is much, much softer in SW with characters in a party having overlapping skills and competencies. The "Thief" character will be better at picking locks than the "Fighter" character in a meaningful way, but the "Fighter" will still be able to do some lockpicking, if not well or as good as the "Thief," if that makes sense.

We like that, but I've had players though who HATED having other players being able to step into their niche from time to time.

In addition, it can be a little more complex and daunting to "level up" a SW character than a 5e character. 5e characters tend to have listed what they get when they hit a new level. With SW characters, you can spend your advance in a plethora of ways that can cause a little bit of choice paralysis.

However, I find that this lessens or disappears with most players after the 3rd or 4th time they advance their characters.

I really like the idea of a flatter power curve for sure, but I do kind of like the niche protection of classes in DnD.

I guess the class edges in Savage Pathfinder may help a bit with the niche protection if I use that supplement

 

[AK81]

Re: long campaigns.
I've found SW to be far "swingier" than most other RPGs. So your big bad can be dropped in a single round. A "high level" PC can be dropped by a goblin mook. The only way to level the threats are using metacurrency (Bennies) - which feels kinda lousy to do to keep the villains alive (like you're snatching victory from the players.)
There are setting rules - like the maximum number of wounds you can inflict in a single turn is 3 - but by that point if you're taking a -3 death spiral penalty on everything, you're probably going down next round anyway.
And then you have -4 on your roll to not permanently die.
It's really a punishing and brutal system for long term campaigns.
(Sorry if I'm being negative here. I do feel like criticism has its place when we're asked our opinions about a system. I have played and run SW for years now - even recently. I own most of their products. I'm not coming from the position of a guy who played the game once at a convention ten years ago. You may disagree with me, but these are real points.)

Both criticism and praise is welcome when trying to understand how a game runs

 

[Doc_Klueless]

(Sorry if I'm being negative here. I do feel like criticism has its place when we're asked our opinions about a system. I have played and run SW for years now - even recently. I own most of their products. I'm not coming from the position of a guy who played the game once at a convention ten years ago. You may disagree with me, but these are real points.)

Absolutely! And they're very welcome! It's good to get a view from both sides.

People like me who absolutely adore Savage Worlds have a tendency to gloss over the negative things.

But I guess that's the same with any form of entertainment. We maximize the good and minimize the bad.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

I really like the idea of a flatter power curve for sure, but I do kind of like the niche protection of classes in DnD.

I guess the class edges in Savage Pathfinder may help a bit with the niche protection if I use that supplement

Yes, Savage Pathfinder has much more niche protection, but it's still not huge. But there is more there.