D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Crimson Longinus]

Or there is the current 2024 version* : you're an elf. Pick one of these three lists of spells. Congratulations. That's the type of elf you are.

Sound pretty ideal to me.

 

[Remathilis]

Sound pretty ideal to me.

Then get rid of the subtypes and let them free-choice three spells. Infinite elves. No more drow, wood elves, etc.

One elf to rule them all.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Then get rid of the subtypes and let them free-choice three spells. Infinite elves. No more drow, wood elves, etc.

One elf to rule them all.

Yes. That would be even better.

 

[Minigiant]

Or there is the current 2024 version* : you're an elf. Pick one of these three lists of spells. Congratulations. That's the type of elf you are.

Monster's of the Multiverse was the correct way to design subtypes of elves, gnomes, and dwarves.

*based on the playtest, which apparently beat the spark-joy threshold.

Elves to me are best as what I call a Type 3 race.

All the "Subrace is a Spell-list" subspecies are:

Elf
Genasi
Tiefling
Gith
Trapfolk

You pick list and that's what kind of elf or genasi or gith you are.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Or there is the current 2024 version* : you're an elf. Pick one of these three lists of spells. Congratulations. That's the type of elf you are.

sounds awful to me, while i'm fine with using a spell or two to add diversity to a species' subgroups their magic being their entire source of diversity is just bad, if the entire defining difference between two subgroups of elves is just the spells they know then they're not different enough to be classified as subspecies for me

 

[Minigiant]

sounds awful to me, while i'm fine with using a spell or two to add diversity to a species' subgroups their magic being their entire source of diversity is just bad, if the entire defining difference between two subgroups of elves is just the spells they know then they're not different enough to be classified as subspecies for me

Well techically Sea Elves and Shadar Kai don't get any spells. And Wood and Eladrin don't get the cantrip.

The Elf traits are Darkvision Low Light Vision, Fey Ancestry, Keen Senses, and Trance. Then they morph from there. Some get straight spells. Others become magical inherently. And some do both.

 

[Yaarel]

Elf Traits: you gain Fey Ancestry and Trance, choose extra spells (two cantrips, slot 1, and slot 2), and cast all spells innately.

Everything else is culture.

Since it helps to provide a default option for the spell choices, the elven culture can suggest the defaults. Each culture exhibits a higher frequency of certain spells. In the Forgotten Realms, the default culture for an Elf is the High culture. But there can also be a chart for the "typical" spells of other elven cultures as well. There can be new cantrips: Wings and Gills. Darkvision can be a cantrip too. Here are examples of spells that trend in each elven culture.

ELVEN CULTURE: TYPICAL SPELL CHOICES
Astral: Light, Sacred Flame, Bless, Misty Step
Drow: Darkvision, Dancing Lights, Faerie Fire, Darkness
Eladrin: Frostbite, Sacred Flame, Charm Person, Misty Step
High: Prestidigitation, Guidance, Detect Magic, Misty Step
Mark of Detection: Darkvision, Guidance, Detect Evil/Good, Augury
Mark of Shadow: Darkvision, Minor Illusion, Disguise Self, Darkness
Mark of Storm: Booming Blade, Thaumaturgy, Fog Cloud, Warding Wind
Palid: Darkvision, Light, Sleep, Invisiblity.
Sea: Darkvision, Gills, Speak with Animals, Enhance Ability
Shadar-kai: Darkvision, Resistance, False Life, Misty Step
Wood: Darkvision, Druidcraft, Longstrider, Pass without Trace

Etcetera. You can pick spells that are less typical in your culture.


In the context of a specific setting, there can be backgrounds, such as High Elf Mithral Armorer, or Wood Elf Deer Rider.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Well techically Sea Elves and Shadar Kai don't get any spells. And Wood and Eladrin don't get the cantrip.

The Elf traits are Darkvision Low Light Vision, Fey Ancestry, Keen Senses, and Trance. Then they morph from there. Some get straight spells. Others become magical inherently. And some do both.

sure but that isn't what it sounded like they were suggesting, it sounded like they were saying that the subspecies should purely get defined by the spells they innately learn, and to me, that's not worthy of the definition subspecies.

 

[Remathilis]

sounds awful to me, while i'm fine with using a spell or two to add diversity to a species' subgroups their magic being their entire source of diversity is just bad, if the entire defining difference between two subgroups of elves is just the spells they know then they're not different enough to be classified as subspecies for me

Exactly my point!

Well techically Sea Elves and Shadar Kai don't get any spells. And Wood and Eladrin don't get the cantrip.

The Elf traits are Darkvision Low Light Vision, Fey Ancestry, Keen Senses, and Trance. Then they morph from there. Some get straight spells. Others become magical inherently. And some do both.

In the UA playtest 1, high elves, wood elves, and drow all get three bonus spells (1 cantrip, one first, and one 2nd level) as well as a minor augmentation to another racial trait.

High: Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Misty Step, and the ability to swap the cantrip to another on the [arcane] (probably wizard) list after a long rest.
Wood: Druidcraft, longstrider, and pass without trace and +5 ft of speed.
Drow: Dancing Lights, Faerie Fire, Darkness, and +60 ft of darkvision.

Yup. That's all a high, wood, and drow elf get to differ themselves. Compare that to what the other elves get in MotM (and Spelljammer)

Astral: bonus cantrip (one of three light-themed choices), teleport prof/md per day, a tool/weapon and a skill prof per day.
Eladrin: teleport prof/mod per day with a bonus effect based on season. Two tool/weapon profs per day.
Sea: swim speed, water breathing, speak with fish, cold resistance, and two tool/weapon profs per day.
Shadar-kai: Teleport prof/mod per day (with bonus damage reduction for 1 round), necrotic resistance, two tools/weapon profs.

Its insulting how bad the PHB elf looks. And I wager if the PHB elf is allowed to go print like that, they will be outclassed by their older elves until they too are reduced to a three bonus spells and an extra trait.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Dragonborn in my world are the physical manifestation of the memetic shards of a dead dragon's personality. The reason they feel more human is because they are only a small part of a dragon's mind.

This is also why there aren't nations of dragonborn. Killing dragons is hard.

that is a how they are formed, it changes nothing inherently, a simily the earth formed from either the collision of gas, dust and rocks or by the hands of some god yet nither changes that the world is the world.
how does not change who they are.

sounds awful to me, while i'm fine with using a spell or two to add diversity to a species' subgroups their magic being their entire source of diversity is just bad, if the entire defining difference between two subgroups of elves is just the spells they know then they're not different enough to be classified as subspecies for me

Exactly my point!

In the UA playtest 1, high elves, wood elves, and drow all get three bonus spells (1 cantrip, one first, and one 2nd level) as well as a minor augmentation to another racial trait.

High: Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Misty Step, and the ability to swap the cantrip to another on the [arcane] (probably wizard) list after a long rest.
Wood: Druidcraft, longstrider, and pass without trace and +5 ft of speed.
Drow: Dancing Lights, Faerie Fire, Darkness, and +60 ft of darkvision.

Yup. That's all a high, wood, and drow elf get to differ themselves. Compare that to what the other elves get in MotM (and Spelljammer)

Astral: bonus cantrip (one of three light-themed choices), teleport prof/md per day, a tool/weapon and a skill prof per day.
Eladrin: teleport prof/mod per day with a bonus effect based on season. Two tool/weapon profs per day.
Sea: swim speed, water breathing, speak with fish, cold resistance, and two tool/weapon profs per day.
Shadar-kai: Teleport prof/mod per day (with bonus damage reduction for 1 round), necrotic resistance, two tools/weapon profs.

Its insulting how bad the PHB elf looks. And I wager if the PHB elf is allowed to go print like that, they will be outclassed by their older elves until they too are reduced to a three bonus spells and an extra trait.

so what is a better way to make them?
and how do we make it something we can used to make all other options good?