D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Remathilis]

Get rid of subraces. Non-humans can have cultures just like humans, but there is no reason to make it mechanical, and doing so would be problematic. An exception could be made in case of obvious and significant physical differences, but perhaps in those cases it might be easier to write those as full separate species. For example tritons are not human subspecies, so why should aquatic elves be an elven subspecies? (Not that we need both tritons and tritons but elves; one aquatic hominid species seems sufficient.)

I agree on getting rid of subraces, but I think former subraces should be developed into full races with unique traits that share a common ancestry (and therefore a "tag" that treats them as the same for certain effects). An aquatic elf should be a separate race that has its own unique mechanics, but share a "you count as an elf" tag so that they can take elven accuracy or make boots of elvenkind. If a subrace doesn't hold enough distinction to stand alone, then fold it into the mothership.

To whit: I think the following subraces should stand alone as separate species:
Elf: high, wood, drow, aquatic, astral, eladrin, shadar-kai
dwarf: duergar
gnome: rock, forest, deep
Genasi: fire, air, earth, water
Tiefling: abyssal, infernal

And the following should be condensed
Aasimar (the difference is wing type and damage type)
Shifter (shifting type isn't big enough. Shifters should also be able to swap trait)
Dwarf: Hill and mountain are too similar
Halfling: stout and lightfoot are too similar
Goliath: the giant type is like shifting, too small to break apart
Dragonborn: likewise with dragon type.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I agree on getting rid of subraces, but I think former subraces should be developed into full races with unique traits that share a common ancestry (and therefore a "tag" that treats them as the same for certain effects). An aquatic elf should be a separate race that has its own unique mechanics, but share a "you count as an elf" tag so that they can take elven accuracy or make boots of elvenkind. If a subrace doesn't hold enough distinction to stand alone, then fold it into the mothership.

To whit: I think the following subraces should stand alone as separate species:
Elf: high, wood, drow, aquatic, astral, eladrin, shadar-kai
dwarf: duergar
gnome: rock, forest, deep
Genasi: fire, air, earth, water
Tiefling: abyssal, infernal

And the following should be condensed
Aasimar (the difference is wing type and damage type)
Shifter (shifting type isn't big enough. Shifters should also be able to swap trait)
Dwarf: Hill and mountain are too similar
Halfling: stout and lightfoot are too similar
Goliath: the giant type is like shifting, too small to break apart
Dragonborn: likewise with dragon type.

This sounds like the worst of all possible worlds to me.

Let's spend more design effort on alllllll the existing elves, give them moooorrrre unique mechanics.. take take away zeeeero of the meta advantages to being an elf...

And..
Collapse most any potentially useful distinction elsewhere.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Heh. If 5e 2024 came out and officially said the D&D Dwarf species is an army of clones ... that wouldnt even be problematic.

Isn’t that the new 40k lore for dwarves?

 

[jmartkdr2]

dragonborn lack a setting presence they feel empty, this angers me they are popular on look and mechanic alone without the final part.

but what would they even be, high and wood as at least some more presence, what is the difference between hill and mountain or lightfoot and stout something that feels more important?

I always assume there’s a Dragonborn kingdom/empire somewhere moderately inaccessible (eg across an ocean) and a few immigrants in the main setting where the pcs are.

They basically have Klingon culture, except with dragons.

 

[tetrasodium]

They’re PCs. Neither of them have plot armor.

I was talking about their society/civilization in that quote & explained why I feel that way back in 776. If your players are playing an actual society or civilization I think our d&d experience is going to differ too much for common ground since mine are playing individual people who inherit values & culture from the civilization they hail from.

There's a pretty good video talking about some of the plot armored bits of dwarven civilization & society here. Relying on "Because magic" runs into the missing impact on the world & only goes so far before dwarven society stacked against just about everything else should be similar to comparing babylon5's vorlon tech to the tech of almost any other b5 race not also among the first ones.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Get rid of subraces. Non-humans can have cultures just like humans, but there is no reason to make it mechanical, and doing so would be problematic. An exception could be made in case of obvious and significant physical differences, but perhaps in those cases it might be easier to write those as full separate species. For example tritons are not human subspecies, so why should aquatic elves be an elven subspecies? (Not that we need both tritons and tritons but elves; one aquatic hominid species seems sufficient.)

At the very least, remove the word “subrace” not only from the books, but from how designers think about ancestries/races/whatever.

There are various types of elves, but the difference is ultimately the kinds of magic they grew up with. List a few variations (high, wood, dark) and then just give guidance on making your own. Do the same with tieflings and aasimar.

Dragonborn have energy types, which is a different kind of variable. Dwarves have what? Tool proficiency I guess. Etc, etc.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The only species that I feel merits subspecies is the Dragonborn. Whether its "ancestry" comes from a transmogrified egg of a Gold Dragon or a White Dragon, makes sense.

You can do that with a single chart for Dragonborn, though, with combined scale color and breath weapon details. They are just fine with one write-up.

 

[Minigiant]

I agree on getting rid of subraces, but I think former subraces should be developed into full races with unique traits that share a common ancestry (and therefore a "tag" that treats them as the same for certain effects). An aquatic elf should be a separate race that has its own unique mechanics, but share a "you count as an elf" tag so that they can take elven accuracy or make boots of elvenkind. If a subrace doesn't hold enough distinction to stand alone, then fold it into the mothership.

To whit: I think the following subraces should stand alone as separate species:
Elf: high, wood, drow, aquatic, astral, eladrin, shadar-kai
dwarf: duergar
gnome: rock, forest, deep
Genasi: fire, air, earth, water
Tiefling: abyssal, infernal

And the following should be condensed
Aasimar (the difference is wing type and damage type)
Shifter (shifting type isn't big enough. Shifters should also be able to swap trait)
Dwarf: Hill and mountain are too similar
Halfling: stout and lightfoot are too similar
Goliath: the giant type is like shifting, too small to break apart
Dragonborn: likewise with dragon type.

Personally I still thing subraces should stay.

I think there are 4 types of Races/Species.

Type 1: No Deviation
All members of the race are mentally and physically the same barring disorders, corruption, or standard genetic aspects.

• Gobliniods
• Most Beastfolk

Type 2: Low Deviation
All members of the race are nearly mentally and physically the same. All members have a significant aspect of themselves that can be very different mechanically between members. It might be genetic or the genetic way they display culture.

• Aasimar
• Gnome
• Dragonborn

Type 3: High Divergence
All members of the race are on the same relative mental and physical chassis. However a major aspect of the the species is extremely different from other members of the race. This is usually because a cultural choice or historical event has a physical and/or mental change on their being.

• Elves
• Tielflings
• Genasi

Type 4: Snowflakes
These are beings of rare or special birth or creation or transformation

• Custom Lineage
• Dhampirs

The Question is which one are Halflings, Dwarves, and Orcs. 1, 2, or 3?

 

[bedir than]

Dragonborn in my world are the physical manifestation of the memetic shards of a dead dragon's personality. The reason they feel more human is because they are only a small part of a dragon's mind.

This is also why there aren't nations of dragonborn. Killing dragons is hard.

 

[Remathilis]

This sounds like the worst of all possible worlds to me.

Let's spend more design effort on alllllll the existing elves, give them moooorrrre unique mechanics.. take take away zeeeero of the meta advantages to being an elf...

And..
Collapse most any potentially useful distinction elsewhere.

Or there is the current 2024 version* : you're an elf. Pick one of these three lists of spells. Congratulations. That's the type of elf you are.

Monster's of the Multiverse was the correct way to design subtypes of elves, gnomes, and dwarves.

*based on the playtest, which apparently beat the spark-joy threshold.