Grade the Forged in the Dark System

[FrogReaver]

Why not? I mean, as Reynard notes, it's really granular, such that I don't think it's worthwhile tracking it that way. And I don't know that it'd be interesting. But you could do it.

Because clocks in BitD:
1. Require DM setup
2. Require DM to decide to tick them as a consequence instead of a different consequence
3. Are rarely in the fiction directly related to the players failed action attempt

HP is generally not any of those things.

*I'm not familiar with other FitD games.

Look, if you want to classify hp as a type of clock go for it, but to me it's at best muddying the waters for no good reason and at worst playing semantic games - because at the end of the day HP is wholly unlike the actual clock implementations in BitD.

 

[niklinna]

What’s the difference? Each is a countdown pacing mechanic that determines when enough has happened for a resolution of some sort.

Well, see, clocks cover all sorts of things at all sorts of scales: When the guards are alerted to your presence, when the demon influence finally takes over the city council, when your ritual preparations finally summon the eldritch horror, when you convince a patron to give you what you want, when you seduce that rich socialite who's got the dirt on your enemy, when the armor of the elite juggernaut you are fighting is breached (so you can finally inflict actual Harm), when the crazed mob you are fighting is taken out or dispersed. Clocks are easily improvised to represent all that, and tunable to establish pacing and tension for a brewing event or outcome. AND! Multiple clocks can be set up in series, or in parallel, or in opposition, or any combination thereof, to dynamically represent all sorts of situations. They are like a rich multi-tier, multi-layer wedding or birthday or victory cake of gaming goodness, with multiple flavors and cool frosting decorations all over.

Hit points only cover when an individual creature falls over dead (or dying), and maybe sometimes how hard it is to like bash down a door or something. They are like a small chipped bowl with a couple of stale peanuts in it.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

Look, if you want to classify hp as a type of clock go for it, but to me it's at best muddying the waters for no good reason and at worst playing semantic games - because at the end of the day HP is wholly unlike the actual clock implementations in BitD.

Right on. That makes sense to me. I'm not tremendously familiar with BitD and don't feel strongly about this. It's just that it's a countdown mechanism at the end of the day, so I was curious as to why not.

 

[FrogReaver]

Right on. That makes sense to me. I'm not tremendously familiar with BitD and don't feel strongly about this. It's just that it's a countdown mechanism at the end of the day, so I was curious as to why not.

The problem as I see it is - the purpose of lumping together hp and generic clocks in this instance is to try to imply hypocrisy on the part of someone that is fine with hp but not generic clocks.

So, if all someone is wanting to say by 'hp is a clock' is that it's a countdown mechanism I'm perfectly fine there. But that's not all that was being said in this instance.

 

[niklinna]

Because clocks in BitD:
1. Require DM setup

If setup means whipping them up on the fly, then sure ok.

2. Require DM to decide to tick them as a consequence instead of a different consequence

Perhaps better phrased as, "Enable the GM to decide to tick them, possibly in various combinations, as a consequence instead of just deducting meat/not-meat points." And remember, clocks passing certain values can trigger actions (or partial effect) in the fiction, it isn't just when a clock is completely filled (of course you could view that as serial clocks which I mentioned above).

3. Are rarely in the fiction directly related to the players failed action attempt

False! They are frequently directly related to players' action attempts, whether successful or not. But they don't have to be. So versatile!

HP is generally not any of those things.

Indeed they are not.

Look, if you want to classify hp as a type of clock go for it, but to me it's at best muddying the waters for no good reason and at worst playing semantic games - because at the end of the day HP is wholly unlike the actual clock implementations in BitD.

I wouldn't dream of classifying hit points as a type of clock. They are far too limited and boring in comparison.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

The problem as I see it is - the purpose of lumping together hp and generic clocks in this instance is to try to imply hypocrisy on the part of someone that is fine with hp but not generic clocks.

So, if all someone is wanting to say by 'hp is a clock' is that it's a countdown mechanism I'm perfectly fine there. But that's not all that was being said in this instance.

Are we talking about generic clocks or BitD clocks? I agree with you that they're not suitable for use in the same way as the latter, for the reasons you spelled out, and I don't think they'd be interesting for the former, as I mentioned.

I don't know. I'm kind of finding this response a little confusing. If someone was saying that, then take it up with them. If you think I was saying it, then say that directly.

 

[FrogReaver]

What’s the difference? Each is a countdown pacing mechanic that determines when enough has happened for a resolution of some sort.

I mean, what's the difference between dirt and steak? Both can be eaten and then after enough time sent out the poop shute.

And just so the point is clear - i'm suggesting it matters not just that they are countdown pacing mechanics, but also properties like who sets them up and when, who counts them down and when, etc.

 

[FrogReaver]

Are we talking about generic clocks or BitD clocks? I agree with you that they're not suitable for use in the same way as the latter, for the reasons you spelled out, and I don't think they'd be interesting for the former, as I mentioned.

Both it seems?

I don't know. I'm kind of finding this response a little confusing. If someone was saying that, then take it up with them. If you think I was saying it, then say that directly.

I do not think you did that.

*I was more adding to your agreement than disagreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

I do not think you did that.

*I was more adding to your agreement than disagreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Right on. I appreciate it. It's clearly past my bedtime -- my reading comp is right in the toilet.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I mean, what's the difference between dirt and steak? Both can be eaten and then after enough time sent out the poop shute.

And just so the point is clear - i'm suggesting it matters not just that they are countdown pacing mechanics, but also properties like who sets them up and when, who counts them down and when, etc.

It’s just a question. No one’s looking to call you a hypocrite.