D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[CreamCloud0]

You're not making any sense to me here. You said that it doesn't make sense to have supernatural warrior types alongside mundane ones. But we do. And then its a problem now?

Is this just another martial v. caster disparity thing?

sounds like it, 'mystic martials are shackled in potential by the albatross of having to exist and be balanced in a system alongside pure mundane classes'

which is nonsense IMO, potent mundane martials can exist, they managed it in 4e after all.

 

[Mephista]

Post some ideas!!!!

So, here's what I do.
~ all spells need all three VSM components. This is general caster nerf, but a Subtle metamagic buff.
~ throwing out the sor spell list. Instead, at level 1, pick any other full caster spell list. If you want to be wild magic with druid list, go for it. Divine with cleric? Sure!
~ can use power point system
~ at lvl 2, gain the following: "You may spend a point to cast Detect Magic as a bonus action on yourself. If you do, you may add your charisma bonus to any Study Action related to anything magical, such as undead, a fiend, a spell, or a magical trap."
~ new metamagics - Sorcerous Fist. It meant to work with self transmutation, like Alter Self for dragon-y claws, or the Dragon Breath Spell, or Fly. There's also provisions for making the Breath attack into an illithid mind blast.
~ all subclasses get spell lists, Ala aberrant mind and clockwork.

 

[James Gasik]

Have you considered using some actual OSR games to support your point about OSR games?

And I don't need the majority to agree with me. It is nice if some people do though, and I don't see the fact that many disagree with my preferences as a reason not to talk about them. No one else around here gets told not to talk about what they like, and it's not like I'm bad-mouthing other's people's likes (at least I don't think I am).

You keep running afoul of "fan mentality". Person A says "I like this!" Person B says, calmly, without malice. "I don't like this."

"WHAAT?!! WHY NOT!!!! I MUST NOW SPEND THREE HOURS TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU LIKE THIS THING I LIKE!!!!"

 

[James Gasik]

See, and I run into a similar issue with the Invoker, that is just another flavor of the Cleric. You could build that easily by simply taking no healing or buffing spells for a cleric.

There's not a lot of good Cleric spells that really support an Invoker character though. And even if you add spells via a Subclass, the Cleric subclass design doesn't give you many new spells to work with. And if you just add those spells to the Cleric list to add Invoker flavor, nothing stops any Cleric from taking them so in the end, in the attempt to create a different playstyle (Divine Controller/Blaster) you just powered up the Cleric.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

There's not a lot of good Cleric spells that really support an Invoker character though. And even if you add spells via a Subclass, the Cleric subclass design doesn't give you many new spells to work with. And if you just add those spells to the Cleric list to add Invoker flavor, nothing stops any Cleric from taking them so in the end, in the attempt to create a different playstyle (Divine Controller/Blaster) you just powered up the Cleric.

Which means the subclass should have bigger impact to your spell selection overall. Like I said ages ago.

 

[James Gasik]

Which means the subclass should have bigger impact to your spell selection overall. Like I said ages ago.

I wasn't disputing the fact that you said it, if anything, I'm reinforcing that opinion. Was I supposed to credit you? Mea culpa.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Mage Hand Press has a warmage class (with great support @Minigiant ) that is all about the exploitation of cantrip magic.

Sure, but I imagine these are cantrips in line with most other 5e cantrips. Not "I can summon to my side any object within miles of my position that I can name, as a first tier character." Because that's how the summoning charm, accio, works. Harry uses it during the Triwizard Tournament, meaning before he's started his NEWT level classes; this is magic relatively ordinary children can cast on the regular.

Hence why I say Harry Potter magic is OP. It compresses all magical effects, even very powerful ones, into indefinite use cantrips.

 

[James Gasik]

This is, after all, because HP is a work of fiction, not a game. If one was to make HP-based casters for a game, I imagine some actual rules and limitations on their powers would need to exist, otherwise people just cast "Avada Kedavra!" all day long!

 

[Mephista]

Dragon sorcerer subclass spell list
Cantrip - Primal Savagery, but the option to use your dragon type instead of acid
1st - absorb elements, chromatic orb
2nd - Alter Self, Chromatic Orb
3rd - Fear, Fly
4th - Polymorph, Conjure minor elementals
5th - Conjure Elements, Summon Draconic Spirit

 

[CreamCloud0]

Sure, but I imagine these are cantrips in line with most other 5e cantrips. Not "I can summon to my side any object within miles of my position that I can name, as a first tier character." Because that's how the summoning charm, accio, works. Harry uses it during the Triwizard Tournament, meaning before he's started his NEWT level classes; this is magic relatively ordinary children can cast on the regular.

Hence why I say Harry Potter magic is OP. It compresses all magical effects, even very powerful ones, into indefinite use cantrips.

but you're not trying to replicate harry potter themselves, you're just trying to replicate the feel of harry potter, a caster who can cast spell after spell and not worry about spell slots or levels, you don't give this caster alohamora on repeat you give them knock, because knock is the spell that exists in DnD, when your player says they want to be thor you don't give them unlimited thunderbolts, flight and a magic hammer cause that's what the character from the movies has/is capable of, you point them in the direction of a tempest cleric or somesuch because that's the sub/class that exists in the game that best fufills that concept.