D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[FrogReaver]

I think that's a bit more than is necessary; most people are using "human" to refer to their appearance or concept, not their actual capabilities.

No one says Harry Potter isn't a human, even though he has capabilities that are impossible for an actual Earth human.

Some humans can be magical does not imply every human is magical. IMO That’s the part that’s getting pushback.

 

[James Gasik]

Or two separate but related points. One, that party doesn't work in D&D, but it should. Two, that type of party shouldn't exist in D&D.

Shouldn't exist is a bit strong. I'm not going to tell someone that they way they like their D&D is "wrong". However, if such a party does exist- I have questions!

But sometimes those are the kinds of questions that shouldn't be asked, like, "if the hydra has more mass now, can it's heart support the need to pump blood into a larger body?".

 

[James Gasik]

I think that's a bit more than is necessary; most people are using "human" to refer to their appearance or concept, not their actual capabilities.

No one says Harry Potter isn't a human, even though he has capabilities that are impossible for an actual Earth human.

Wizards in the HP verse are, by definition, not normal humans (who are called Muggles in an example of fantastic racism).

 

[Remathilis]

Maybe, but this is not a game-useful definition of "supernatural".

Saying that everything in a fantasy setting is fantastical (by earth standards) should not be that surprising.

Fantastical loses its meaning when the audience has no frame of reference. If trees look like trees, feel like trees and explode into fireballs when chopped down, the audience wants an explanation and telling them "it's fantasy, you're not on Earth" isn't going to satisfy. At best, they check out and assume that they cannot understand the rules of the world and at worst they go full CinemaSins and nitpick every contradiction they find.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Or two separate but related points. One, that party doesn't work in D&D, but it should. Two, that type of party shouldn't exist in D&D.

I don't think that is something that can work. Doctor Strange fights cosmic gods, Superman effectively is one, but most dangerous thing John McClane fights is an angry German. And I know the latter have historically been a source of a lot of trouble, but it still is not comparable.

 

[FrogReaver]

is an action movie hero supernatural?

 

[James Gasik]

Some humans can be magical does not imply every human is magical. IMO That’s the part that’s getting pushback.

Ok, so there's these two schools of thought. One, that player characters are special in the game. The other that they are not special.

If you adhere to the first, everything makes sense. The player character human is magical and can do crazy stuff because it's assumed he's special.

But if you adhere to the second, things kind of break down because player characters can have classes and magic and preternatural abilities that only special people should have...and yet, we're saying they aren't special?

Like I said, if we say some people can do these things but most people can't, so the ones that can are the exceptions, and the player characters are always exceptions, great!

But if someone starts saying "some people can do these things but most people can't and player characters aren't particularly special or noteworthy in the world" and yet just about every player has these special traits...yeah.

 

[TwoSix]

Some humans can be magical does not imply every human is magical. IMO That’s the part that’s getting pushback.

I think people are primed, by their own tendencies, to follow the train of logic in two different directions.

One is "If this person can be a wizard, then of course other people can be wizards. And magic is real, so there's almost certainly vampires and werewolves and mystical martial artists too!"

The other is "This person can cast spells. But we have no evidence that just because this person can do something, that doesn't mean any other weirdness exists, this is probably just an isolated phenomenon."

Or more generally "If something proves an exception to the rule, then the rule probably isn't accurate" versus "An exception to the rule is just that, an exception."

 

[TwoSix]

Shouldn't exist is a bit strong. I'm not going to tell someone that they way they like their D&D is "wrong". However, if such a party does exist- I have questions!

Obviously I don't think that. But there are absolutely people who do.

 

[James Gasik]

Fantastical loses its meaning when the audience has no frame of reference. If trees look like trees, feel like trees and explode into fireballs when chopped down, the audience wants an explanation and telling them "it's fantasy, you're not on Earth" isn't going to satisfy. At best, they check out and assume that they cannot understand the rules of the world and at worst they go full CinemaSins and nitpick every contradiction they find.

Yes, we need a throwaway line in the script that most people will miss when they go to nitpick that mentions "fire trees" at some point.