D&D 1E Favorite Obscure Rules from TSR-era D&D

[Mannahnin]

The existence of spellcasters has to be really examined in D&D, if you want a game that also includes army and sieges.

I would say that in GH, the presence of spellcasters, especially higher level ones, was especially rare, and they were unlikely to be involved in those types of conflicts. Which reflects his unease.

IIRC, in the leaders of Greyhawk, there weren't many spellcasters, but the highest levels were an 11th level magic user and a multiclassed (??!!!?) illusionist of 15th level. There was also a 19th level cleric, but screw Veluna.

IIRC the opening sequence of Gary's second Gord the Rogue novel involves a mass battle & siege on a Scarlet Brotherhood citadel, and big spells are getting flung around all over the place, demons summoned, etc.

Later in the book Melf ambushes a large bandit convoy all by himself (or with a couple of buddies?) using mostly M-U spells.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

IIRC the opening sequence of Gary's second Gord the Rogue novel involves a mass battle & siege on a Scarlet Brotherhood citadel, and big spells are getting flung around all over the place, demons summoned, etc.

Later in the book Melf ambushes a large bandit convoy all by himself (or with a couple of buddies?) using mostly M-U spells.

One of the great successes in my life has been that I have been able to block out the experience of reading the Gord books from my memory.

The first book is almost readable, but calling the remainder "dire" after that would be a failure to give sufficient warning. IIRC, didn't Gygax effectively blow up Greyhawk at the end in a fit of pique over the fallout with TSR?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

One of the great successes in my life has been that I have been able to block out the experience of reading the Gord books from my memory.

I solved that problem easily by almost never reading books based on games. The exceptions were things like the Wildcard anthologies- I bought & read them not knowing they’re based on the writers campaigns.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Dredging up an old rule-

in AD&D, picking the right god for your cleric mattered.

The 1e PHB ties in the spells that the Cleric receives to the worship of the deity. On page 40, it states that while 1st - 4th level spells are granted by the lesser servants of the cleric's deity, 5th level spells and higher are granted by the deity itself. It goes so far as to state that the cleric must supplicate the deity for the granting of these high level spells and can be judged accordingly.

Deities & Demigods further expands on that as follows:
The delineation of spells become more clear;
Clerics gain 1st and 2nd level spells on their own (knowledge and faith).
Then it changes up a little, depending on the "ranking" of the god. All other spells are gained through prayer.
Demigods: Grant 3rd-5th level spells directly, and the cleric cannot get higher level spells.
Lesser Gods: Grant 3rd-5th level spells through minions, grants 6th level spells directly, and cannot grant 7th level spells.
Great Gods: Grant 3rd-5th level spells through minions, and 6th and 7th level spells directly.

That's right- if you're a cleric of a demigod, you can't get higher than a 5th level spell. If you're a cleric of a lesser god, you can't get 7th level spells.

 

[Alzrius]

Dredging up an old rule-

in AD&D, picking the right god for your cleric mattered.

The 1e PHB ties in the spells that the Cleric receives to the worship of the deity. On page 40, it states that while 1st - 4th level spells are granted by the lesser servants of the cleric's deity, 5th level spells and higher are granted by the deity itself. It goes so far as to state that the cleric must supplicate the deity for the granting of these high level spells and can be judged accordingly.

Deities & Demigods further expands on that as follows:
The delineation of spells become more clear;
Clerics gain 1st and 2nd level spells on their own (knowledge and faith).
Then it changes up a little, depending on the "ranking" of the god. All other spells are gained through prayer.
Demigods: Grant 3rd-5th level spells directly, and the cleric cannot get higher level spells.
Lesser Gods: Grant 3rd-5th level spells through minions, grants 6th level spells directly, and cannot grant 7th level spells.
Great Gods: Grant 3rd-5th level spells through minions, and 6th and 7th level spells directly.

That's right- if you're a cleric of a demigod, you can't get higher than a 5th level spell. If you're a cleric of a lesser god, you can't get 7th level spells.

Personally, I always enjoyed the idea that a cleric is requesting their spells for the day, rather than simply picking them. Done right, that's supposed to be indicative of your god looking out for you; if you're requesting all sorts of anti-undead spells, and the DM knows that you're going to be facing several demons who're behind the recent spate of undead attacks, you might find yourself with a bunch of anti-demon spells instead. Then the party takes that into account and voila, an in-character means of giving the party a hint about what's going on!

Of course, I suspect that most people didn't see it that way, and either viewed it as the DM playing nanny over their character (and resented it), or DMs simply found it too cumbersome to look over the cleric's spell selection each day and potentially cross some stuff out in favor of other stuff.

Likewise for the issue of weaker gods not offering the best spells. Part of the idea there (as I saw it) was that weaker gods had fewer followers, which meant that as you gained levels you became more and more important in the overall religious hierarchy. A greater god might have a lot of 18th level clerics spread all over the continent/world/planes, but you might be the only 18th level cleric a demigod had, and while he couldn't grant you spells above 5th level you bet your ass that when you called out to him, he listened!

That all played into the idea that if you weren't the cleric of a greater god, you were out there proselytizing and winning over converts in an effort to earn your god enough worshipers that they'd become a greater deity. There were no rules for this, in terms of how many worshipers were needed, but it still dovetailed with why a cleric would suddenly build a temple at 9th level.

 

[Undrave]

Personally, I always enjoyed the idea that a cleric is requesting their spells for the day, rather than simply picking them. Done right, that's supposed to be indicative of your god looking out for you; if you're requesting all sorts of anti-undead spells, and the DM knows that you're going to be facing several demons who're behind the recent spate of undead attacks, you might find yourself with a bunch of anti-demon spells instead. Then the party takes that into account and voila, an in-character means of giving the party a hint about what's going on!

Of course, I suspect that most people didn't see it that way, and either viewed it as the DM playing nanny over their character (and resented it), or DMs simply found it too cumbersome to look over the cleric's spell selection each day and potentially cross some stuff out in favor of other stuff.

Likewise for the issue of weaker gods not offering the best spells. Part of the idea there (as I saw it) was that weaker gods had fewer followers, which meant that as you gained levels you became more and more important in the overall religious hierarchy. A greater god might have a lot of 18th level clerics spread all over the continent/world/planes, but you might be the only 18th level cleric a demigod had, and while he couldn't grant you spells above 5th level you bet your ass that when you called out to him, he listened!

That all played into the idea that if you weren't the cleric of a greater god, you were out there proselytizing and winning over converts in an effort to earn your god enough worshipers that they'd become a greater deity. There were no rules for this, in terms of how many worshipers were needed, but it still dovetailed with why a cleric would suddenly build a temple at 9th level.

man those early D&D editions feel like a bunch of different board games stapled together that you're trying to play all at the same time.

 

[the Jester]

Personally, I always enjoyed the idea that a cleric is requesting their spells for the day, rather than simply picking them. Done right, that's supposed to be indicative of your god looking out for you; if you're requesting all sorts of anti-undead spells, and the DM knows that you're going to be facing several demons who're behind the recent spate of undead attacks, you might find yourself with a bunch of anti-demon spells instead. Then the party takes that into account and voila, an in-character means of giving the party a hint about what's going on!

Of course, I suspect that most people didn't see it that way, and either viewed it as the DM playing nanny over their character (and resented it), or DMs simply found it too cumbersome to look over the cleric's spell selection each day and potentially cross some stuff out in favor of other stuff.

I'm pretty sure the option of the DM-as-deity to overwrite the cleric's spell selection was in the books.

I have done this a couple of times over the years but not since 2e.

 

[Voadam]

I'm pretty sure the option of the DM-as-deity to overwrite the cleric's spell selection was in the books.

I have done this a couple of times over the years but not since 2e.

1e PH page 40:

Clerical spells, including the druidic, are bestowed by the gods, so that the cleric need but pray for a few hours and the desired verbal and somatic spell components will be placed properly in his or her mind. First, second, third, and even fourth level spells are granted to the cleric through meditation and devout prayer. This spell giving is accomplished by the lesser servants of the cleric’s deity. Fifth, sixth, and seventh level spells can be given to the cleric ONLY by the cleric’s deity directly, not through some intermediary source. Note that the cleric might well be judged by his or her deity at such time, as the cleric must supplicate the deity for the granting of these spells. While the deity may grant such spells full willingly, a deed, or sacrifice, atonement or abasement may be required. The deity might also ignore a specific spell request and give the cleric some other spell (or none at all). Your Dungeon Master will handle this considering a cleric’s alignment and faithfulness to it and his or her deity. Note that some cleric spells (and all druid spells) also require material ingredients in order for the desired effect to take place. Such components must be supplied by the cleric (or druid), as material is not bestowed.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

man those early D&D editions feel like a bunch of different board games stapled together that you're trying to play all at the same time.

Not just that, but we'd all crow about our mastery of all of the different boardgames' rules, and how the duct tape worked to bring them together ... even while we didn't use those rules that we knew about in our own games.

Good times!

 

[James Gasik]

My AD&D DM really likes the rules for what spells you can get from a deity- he likes to point out that if one believes strongly enough, you can get 1st and 2nd levels spells from a rock!

Not The Rock, mind you, a rock.

Those rules existed in 2e as well, I'm pretty sure, but by the time of Powers and Pantheons/Faiths and Avatars, that was pretty much ignored, as the mythos priests could get high level spells as granted powers which wouldn't be possible if they couldn't grant those spells...though I admit, without going back and checking, for all I know they did take that into account.

But hey, talking about Priests and forgotten rules, how about the time the Complete Priest's Handbook came to the conclusion the Cleric was OP, spent pages and pages on balanced Specialty Priesthoods for just about any religion under the sun, completely contradicting Legends and Lore (and was therefore subsequently ignored in Demihuman Deities and other books going forward)!

Another fun thing is that, according to the Complete Priest's Handbook, when multiclassing, you can substitute "Cleric" for "Priest" and vice versa to determine available multiclass options. Some books follow this convention, others don't (The Complete Planeswalker's Handbook does for example).

Which gets wacky with certain mythos priests, such as ones that can explicitly multiclass or gain powers of another class...but even more weird is that the CPH states Druids are a specialty priesthood (indeed, the PHB makes this claim as well), but Druids have different multiclass options than Clerics!

It's like the occasionally allowed (even by Gary Gygax himself!) but technically illegal Ranger/Druid- Half-Elves can be Ranger/Clerics or Fighter/Druids, but not Ranger/Druids- but then the CPH is like "But any time it says Cleric it means Priest, and of course Druids are Priests!".

Thus you could be a Ranger Druid...right? Who knows!

Ask your DM, I guess!