WotC WotC can, and probably should support multiple editions of D&D.

[Oofta]

As I said, great for consumers until the fall. And TSR got pretty far and published a lot of awesome stuff before the fall came. And in the end the game didn't die, and according to what you've said many times (as a advocate for 5e being the best D&D), just got better.

I'd rather have a dozen more years of gaming than two dozen so-so books I won't use. There's still far more material, blogs, and wiki pages out there than I could ever possibly use. Guess maybe I just value long term over short.

 

[mamba]

Perhaps for those products sold through book stores,

definitely for those, but the hardcovers at a minimum sold in bookstores too

but my understanding was that that channel was primarily for fiction.

I think most of TSR stuff was sold through bookstores back then, getting the deal with Random House was important for them regardless of the novels, in fact they signed them way before they had novels (1979)

 

[mamba]

Core 3, starter and essentials set combined are over 4.5M in sales as of 2023.

Core 3 and the basic sets combined were 7M in 1E sales.

you keep forgetting that Bookscan is about a quarter of US sales while the TSR numbers are all of it, worldwide....

 

[mamba]

Now how about you provide some math and numbers!

sure, Bookscan is about 25% of US sales, TSR numbers are 100% of worldwide sales. Stop equating the two. Done...

So going by your numbers

5EPHB: 1.6M - 1EPHB: 1.6M
5EDMG: 800k - 1EDMG: 1.3M
5EMM: 800k - 1EMM: 1.1M
5E Starter+Essentials: 1.6M - 1E Basic (all versions): 3M

I get a conservative

PHB 6.5M 5e vs 1.6M 1e
DMG 3.2M 5e vs 1.3M 1e
MM 3.2M 5e vs 1.1M 1e
Sets: 6.5M 5e vs 3M 1e/Basic

 

[Zardnaar]

I am not estimating, we have the bookscan data and the other TSE data through 1999

According to the bookscan data (as of 2023) and TSR sales through 1999 poster earlier:

5EPHB: 1.6M - 1EPHB: 1.6M
5EDMG: 800k - 1EDMG: 1.3M
5EMM: 800k - 1EMM: 1.1M
5E Starter+Essentials: 1.6M - 1E Basic (all versions): 3M

5E total top 15 on Bookscan: 6M (includes DM screen and cookbook)
5E total top 15 on Bookscan plus all adventure sales: <8M
Total reported for 1E: 10M we know of and is missing many major hardcover publications and all adventures




By about 500,000 copies according to the data posted on this thread.




Except most of those 20 did not sell 100,000 for 5E. Only 4 of the 20 adventures for 5E sold over 100k copies (COS, WDH, TYP and HODQ). The average is more like 60k and 70*20k is in fact more than 20*60k

And I also think it is more than 20k on average for the 1E modules. I don't know what the number is for 1E modules, but I haven't seen you post numbers either. But I do know that the 5E adventures average around 60k each (as of 2023)




It is above.

Now how about you provide some math and numbers!

Original claim was 1E only. Now you're adding in Basic.

Peak golden age TSR was 27 million in 1983. Last time I adjusted it for inflation it was 60 something million.

5E hit 150 million not long ago and passed the 83 number around 2017 or 18 iirc.

1E or basic was the old peak. This argument popped up years ago upsetting 3E and 4E fans. Ben Rigs recent work confirmed some numbers from back then.

Note 5E isn't my favorite edition I don't care to much what my favorites havevij sales (one is B/X though).

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'd rather have a dozen more years of gaming than two dozen so-so books I won't use. There's still far more material, blogs, and wiki pages out there than I could ever possibly use. Guess maybe I just value long term over short.

What exactly would keep you from getting that "dozen more years of gaming"? In any case, I'd value those books (so-so is subjective) for reading pleasure and inspiration even if I never played the system they were designed for. Heck, I've used my 2e collection in my 5e & Level Up games many times.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Awesome until they go bankrupt and this time there's no white knight to save them and the game slowly dies.

I'm no D&D fan, but I find it extremely unlikely someone wouldn't have wanted to buy the system. It might not have been someone with the funds behind them Peter had, but it wouldn't have gone away completely.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In some cases, I've seen entire subsystems relegated to sourcebooks. The first one that comes to mind is the 4th edition of the Swedish game Eon, where there is no magic system or system for martial techniques, because those are in later sourcebooks (published about 5 years later). You also have a regional sourcebook which completely rewrites the system for prayers/religious magic.

GURPS magic systems were like this too early on; you saw it when they'd try to shoehorn the core magic system into settings it was badly suited to.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sure, and you buy those things if you want them. It doesn't have anything to do with buying the corebook, which is all you need to play the game.

Depends on your definition of "playing the game". You could play D&D without any of the magic classes or spell rules, but I'm betting a lot of people would find it unsatisfactory. Similar things can come up regarding other games and subsystems.

 

[Parmandur]

sure, Bookscan is about 25% of US sales, TSR numbers are 100% of worldwide sales. Stop equating the two. Done...

So going by your numbers


I get a conservative

PHB 6.5M 5e vs 1.6M 1e
DMG 3.2M 5e vs 1.3M 1e
MM 3.2M 5e vs 1.1M 1e
Sets: 6.5M 5e vs 3M 1e/Basic

Well, a conservative estimate would be 30-40%, to be entirely fair. Still way more. Likely even with Adventures, because my understanding is that modules would mostly be in the tens of thousands for sales, not hundreds.