D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[pemerton]

I mean, fair enough, it was good lore. But nothing in the Dragonborn write-up in the 4E PHB or any subsequent book uses the ancient empire bit. Dragonborn are described as reclusive wanderers living in small bands, which is pretty easy to fit anywhere.

Should that be 5E?

 

[Parmandur]

Should that be 5E?

Yup, fixed.

The point is that the upcoming 2024 DMG write-up of Greyhawk doesn't need to work in the ancient Dragonborn empire anywhere, since that isn't part of how 5E has presented Dragonborn.

 

[Maxperson]

Meh.

Wastri experiments with humans - turning them into hybrids. One experiment results in Dragonborn who then escape and become their own thing in the foothills in the south of Sunndi, next to the Iron League nations. Or escape east to the coast and then spread to coastal towns and cities all over.

Poof. Instant origin. Satisfies the canon police and we are good to go.

Dragonborn, Tortles, Tabaxi, Loxodon and more can all be the result of that. You could have a swamp city of various animal folk.

 

[pemerton]

Yup, fixed.

The point is that the upcoming 2024 DMG write-up of Greyhawk doesn't need to work in the ancient Dragonborn empire anywhere, since that isn't part of how 5E has presented Dragonborn.

Speing just for myself, I think that a big part of (not all of) GH is its REH-esque ancient/fallen empires motif, and so I actually think having Dragonborn be scions of a fallen empire would fit.

 

[pemerton]

Dragonborn, Tortles, Tabaxi, Loxodon and more can all be the result of that. You could have a swamp city of various animal folk.

Tabaxi already have a place in GH (at least according to The Scarlet Brotherhood supplement from the late 90s). They live in Hepmonaland.

 

[Parmandur]

Speing just for myself, I think that a big part of (not all of) GH is its REH-esque ancient/fallen empires motif, and so I actually think having Dragonborn be scions of a fallen empire would fit.

Oh, no doubt. I personally think linking the Dragonborn specifically to the Balkunish and Tieflings to the Sueloise would make a lot of sense, and would offer more than sufficient explanation for Tiefling Barbarians from the Northeast and Dragonborn Paladins from Ekbir. But WotC doesn't really need to do that to work in either, since any number of explanations can suffice based on the PHB presentation.

 

[Mecheon]

Wastri experiments with humans - turning them into hybrids. One experiment results in Dragonborn who then escape and become their own thing in the foothills in the south of Sunndi, next to the Iron League nations. Or escape east to the coast and then spread to coastal towns and cities all over.

I mean, you don't even need to go that far.

There's some sort of Dragon Empire that exists in Greyhawk that's never been explored. Just, have Dragonborn live there

 

[Chaosmancer]

For those looking for where dragonborn could come from, that's a pretty easy candidate.

I also learned recently that the original origin for Dragonborn, from the 3.5 Races of Dragons book, was that they are soldiers formed by Bahamut. According to that origin, all Dragonborn were originally a different species (elf, human, dwarf, ect) and undergo a ritual to devote themselves to Bahamut's cause against Tiamat. After the ritual, they are reborn as Dragonborn.

Now, if we could only figure out which setting first had Bahamut and Tiamat in it... Oh wait, it was Greyhawk.

 

[Mecheon]

I also learned recently that the original origin for Dragonborn, from the 3.5 Races of Dragons book, was that they are soldiers formed by Bahamut. According to that origin, all Dragonborn were originally a different species (elf, human, dwarf, ect) and undergo a ritual to devote themselves to Bahamut's cause against Tiamat. After the ritual, they are reborn as Dragonborn.

The weird dragon rebirth (and stuff goes horrible if you do evil acts IIRC?) thing isn't necessarily what folks are wanting, though

There was a reason that was dropped pretty quickly for "Yeah you're just a dragon guy"

 

[Chaosmancer]

The weird dragon rebirth (and stuff goes horrible if you do evil acts IIRC?) thing isn't necessarily what folks are wanting, though

There was a reason that was dropped pretty quickly for "Yeah you're just a dragon guy"

Oh, I understand that completely. But I feel like it would be easy enough to just say that the Dragonborn give birth to other dragonborn. So there is no original homeland, because all their parents were other groups, and they just band together to fight evil dragons. Giving rise to a nomadic society of dragon warriors.

OR have them be from an ancient empire that fell.

Or have them be from somewhere off the map.

All three are consistent with some version of Dragonborn lore, and fit into Greyhawk, just from different settings or editions.