D&D General (SPOILERS for Vecna: Eve of Ruin) Are My Standards Too High for Adventures?

True I can only look at the final product, look at my own complaints and those by a myriad of others who post their own complaints via reviews and come up with an opinion on the quality of the product and work out into it.

It’s true I was not physically in the room with them when they made Dragonlance or Vecna or several others f the other people have had consistent issues with.

We should just be thankful almighty WotC gives us anything at all and not complain about quality of specially when it comes to a product for money.
Nothing wrong with complaining about the product... but attributing your dislike of it to the people who made it just not caring enough or working long or hard enough cuts your legs out from under your argument.

As the mods always say here... criticize the post, not the poster.

Or you know... don't. Go ahead and join in with the myriad of people here over the years who have called the designers of D&D stupid or lazy. But then just don't expect to say that without other people showing up to rebut your claims.
 

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Nothing wrong with complaining about the product... but attributing your dislike of it to the people who made it just not caring enough or working long or hard enough cuts your legs out from under your argument.

As the mods always say here... criticize the post, not the poster.

Or you know... don't. Go ahead and join in with the myriad of people here over the years who have called the designers of D&D stupid or lazy. But then just don't expect to say that without other people showing up to rebut your claims.

I don't think they are lazy or stupid. I think they aren't good adventure designers. They must have their fans though because WotC keeps paying them and releasing their products.

Though I'd say that says more about the current fandom perhaps. Of course when the majority of players don't venture past the modern WotC umbrella they have no full frame of reference. Which is fine, as long as people are having fun. Then again, If you've only ever had a ritz cracker it is of course the best cracker you've ever had.
 

I'm going to be completely honest, as someone who teaches creative writing, as an adventure writer myself, etc etc, WotC clearly has no idea how to actually put together a sensible and engaging narrative. It actually isn't hard to make a narrative for an adventure that is open-ended, engaging, and easy to run; they just clearly don't know what they're doing on this specific front. The adventures are not good stories

But they have tons of great ideas, great moments, great set pieces, and so on. I compare it to Season 8 of Game of Thrones. Everything BUT the story is great.
 

They must have their fans though because WotC keeps paying them and releasing their products.

Though I'd say that says more about the current fandom perhaps. Of course when the majority of players don't venture past the modern WotC umbrella they have no full frame of reference.
Here we go… 🙄
 

High level adventures aren't easy things to put together, I've seen way too many over the years (several being from TSR alumni even) that fail to account for the power and abilities the players have at hand (I've been guilty of it myself - those levels have serious learning curves, and its why I don't play them anymore).

I was very hesitant about this module from the start after listening to the interview, and even from the interview I could sense there were going to be some railroad problems (and rule/lore snags) with the adventure. It really sounded to me like they were falling back into the 2E days of "Epic Storylines" on rails where the characters were more observer than participant (and often would never learn half the story the DM had been fed - Ravenloft, Dark Sun and Planescape were especially notorious for this).

When you're trying to fit a campaign into an X page book there's not much wiggle room beyond the main adventure path, there's probably been several chunks that have been excised just to get it to fit into the page count in the first place. I imagine there's several spots where the characters are just assumed to roll with the plot to the next big scene and there's no space (or attempt) to extrapolate if they don't - they'll just flounder until the DM figures out a way to bridge the gap to the next section.

Also, they've been dinged before for making adventures "too complicated" to run via a convoluted story path or multiple branches - I think that might have been Storm King's Thunder, but I know that probably D&D's most complicated storyline was Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, and it got utterly slammed for how convoluted it was. They don't want to repeat that experience and scare away customers - high level is complicated enough without trying to decipher someone else's storyline and half-notes about how to juggle the storyline(s).

I think what we ended up with was a storyline that could be easily followed and easily run by inexperienced DMs as their first foray into high level as long as the players are onboard for following the primary trail. It's a casual tale, not a meatgrinder. I don't think it was made for the veteran DMs like a lot of us on here who have years under our belt - we're more likely experienced enough we'd prefer to make content that specifically fits our game thus far. They probably expected a lot of groups who attempt to run this have had some game time with lower level characters (maybe up to 8th level or so, if that much) and are going to skip right to this adventure with new PCs or power-leveling current ones.
If I"m being completely honest, not a single problem in this post is insurmountable. This is a team of people whose day job is to live, breathe, and write D&D content. Plenty of 3PP adventures can fit all 20 levels without these issues here mentioned. It isn't a problem with the format, it is a skill issue.
 





I don't think they are lazy or stupid. I think they aren't good adventure designers. They must have their fans though because WotC keeps paying them and releasing their products.

Though I'd say that says more about the current fandom perhaps. Of course when the majority of players don't venture past the modern WotC umbrella they have no full frame of reference. Which is fine, as long as people are having fun. Then again, If you've only ever had a ritz cracker it is of course the best cracker you've ever had.

Here we go… 🙄

You left off the next sentence

"Which is fine, as long as people are having fun."

Because there's nothing about that statement that was fine, frankly. It was a backhanded remark.

I'm not sure I understand your concern @TiQuinn Do you think that the majority of D&D players do engage with non-WotC material? If so, what males you think so? Surely if they did, we wouldn't be shocked by $1million kickstarters with less than 10K backers. If a WotC book made $1million, it would probably be considered an abject failure.
 

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