D&D General (SPOILERS for Vecna: Eve of Ruin) Are My Standards Too High for Adventures?

[TiQuinn]

Really? Keep on the borderlands 1 day no planning. Most of this was pretty basic and most were under 40 pages. Now it’s 300 pages f a meandering plot with mini encounters to fill a plot. I’d take 3/4 and f those modules vs rime of frost maiden or storm king’s thunder

And you can finish Keep on the Borderlands in a couple of sessions. SKT and Frostmaiden are campaigns that can last for dozens of sessions. Two totally different animals. You don’t prep the entirety of Frostmaiden in a single go.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Oh, I meant any 5E books you have on hand.

Oh, those were all born in the USA.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're going to argue Faction War was better than the 5e Planescape box set? Because if not, you're agreeing with my point.

I think on average 2e lore was better and certainly more detailed (which is a big plus for me) than 5e lore. I don't have to believe that every piece of one is better than every piece of the other to believe that.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Here are some rough numbers from a prior thread:


So, based on this, WotC cut is going up from ~$12.50 to ~$15 per book when they upped the price.

Yes, that's probably right. You see why they're so happy to sell them digitally. Digital is not, as much as people believe, based on what the customer wants, but what the publisher wants. IME, there's still vastly more than half the audience that wants print. (I hear in comics, it's more like 80%) But the publishers are successfully, carefully, over time, getting people to switch. Because it's in their interests to do so.

 

[jayoungr]

I'm glad you enjoy them as they are then.

Actually, I enjoy tinkering with published adventures, which is why I'm the one who started many of the "Enhancing" threads on this forum. I just think the degree to which that tinkering is necessary to run the published adventures at all has been exaggerated.

violating the central conceits of a setting (e.g. "it's hard as hell to get out of Ravenloft")

It's hard as hell for level 1-9 PCs who blunder into Ravenloft to get out. The PCs in the Vecna adventure are higher level--and, based on the spoiler post upthread a bit, have some special circumstances working in their favor.

If I was wotc release the adventure league 1 shots in a book.

I actually think that would be a great idea. Pick the best 15 or so AL one-shots--because they do vary widely in quality--and compile them, with full maps and artwork. Include a few that can be strung together into a mini-arc. I don't know how practical such a project would be with the licensing agreements, though.

The path of Ttrpg perfection is littered with better systems crushed under the brand recognition of D&D.

Personally, I feel that "TTRPG perfection" is a myth. Tastes differ and times change. There's no perfect game, just a perfect game for your table at a particular point in time.

I think on average 2e lore was better and certainly more detailed (which is a big plus for me) than 5e lore.

Case in point: some people prefer less detailed lore so that they can make it their own. I'm not necessarily one of them, but I'm sure I've seen comments to that effect on the board.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Case in point: some people prefer less detailed lore so that they can make it their own. I'm not necessarily one of them, but I'm sure I've seen comments to that effect on the board.

Which is why I made clear that my opinion here is just as subjective as literally everyone else's.

 

[KYRON45]

Actually, I enjoy tinkering with published adventures, which is why I'm the one who started many of the "Enhancing" threads on this forum. I just think the degree to which that tinkering is necessary to run the pushed adventures at all has been exaggerated.


It's hard as hell for level 1-9 PCs who blunder into Ravenloft to get out. The PCs in the Vecna adventure are higher level--and, based on the spoiler post upthread a bit, have some special circumstances working in their favor.


I actually think that would be a great idea. Pick the best 15 or so AL one-shots--because they do vary widely in quality--and compile them, with full maps and artwork. Include a few that can be strung together into a mini-arc. I don't know how practical such a project would be with the licensing agreements, though.


Personally, I feel that "TTRPG perfection" is a myth. Tastes differ and times change. There's no perfect game, just a perfect game for your table at a particular point in time.


Case in point: some people prefer less detailed lore so that they can make it their own. I'm not necessarily one of them, but I'm sure I've seen comments to that effect on the board.

Isn't it up to me to decide how much tinkering I need to make the game enjoyable to me? At which point I then get to decide if that much tinkering is cost effective?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Which is why I made clear that my opinion here is just as subjective as literally everyone else's.

Your opinion is as valuable as anyone else's, for sure. You also happen to be (at least a lot of the time) something of an outlier. There's certainly other people who feel as you do, at least in part, but you don't trend toward the masses. And hey, that's okay.

 

[jayoungr]

Isn't it up to me to decide how much tinkering I need to make the game enjoyable to me? At which point I then get to decide if that much tinkering is cost effective?

Of course. That's why I asked (upthread) what your threshold was for "unplayable out of the box."

 

[Micah Sweet]

Your opinion is as valuable as anyone else's, for sure. You also happen to be (at least a lot of the time) something of an outlier. There's certainly other people who feel as you do, at least in part, but you don't trend toward the masses. And hey, that's okay.

I completely agree. I just also strongly believe that how many people share an opinion has no bearing on that opinion's validity. That is in and of itself an outlier, it seems to me, given how many people seem to think that pointing out how popular something is at the moment "gamers today want this and don't want that", somehow makes that something better.