D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: Feats/Backgrounds/Species

The game will not break if you start with 15 instead of 16.
I mean, we had the same arguments when the Tasha’s rules came out; I’m sure we’re going to see them again with very similar faultlines.

My take: It’s not game-breaking, it’s simply annoying. The game shouldn’t favor ANY combination of race-class or background-class via a mechanism that underlies the math of the entire game like stats.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I mean, we had the same arguments when the Tasha’s rules came out; I’m sure we’re going to see them again with very similar faultlines.

My take: It’s not game-breaking, it’s simply annoying. The game shouldn’t favor ANY combination of race-class or background-class via a mechanism that underlies the math of the entire game like stats.
From a mechanical point-of-view, the end result (somewhat encouraging certain combinations of ancestry/background and class) is fairly similar, but there is a very big narrative difference between an orc wizard having a lower intelligence than a high elf wizard due to ancestry and an urchin wizard having a lower intelligence than a scholar wizard by due to background.

"My character's INT is lower because they grew up on the streets and didn't get a good education" is much more palatable as a justification than "Sorry, some races are just smarter than others", while also telling you more about the character in the process.

And end of the day, floating ASI is a very easy house rule to reimplement.
 

I mean, we had the same arguments when the Tasha’s rules came out; I’m sure we’re going to see them again with very similar faultlines.
IMO, it's a lot less of a problem with all the half feats.

Though i would be happiest if they just removed the ability scores and stuck with the bonus.
My take: It’s not game-breaking, it’s simply annoying. The game shouldn’t favor ANY combination of race-class or background-class via a mechanism that underlies the math of the entire game like stats.
The DM can easily allow that.

But I prefer backgrounds to have an impact.
 

"My character's INT is lower because they grew up on the streets and didn't get a good education" is much more palatable as a justification than "Sorry, some races are just smarter than others", while also telling you more about the character in the process.
That's not a palatable justification for anything. It's promoting a narrative that the economically disadvantaged are incapable of learning from their life experiences. That's literally one step removed from saying, "Orcs are nomads with no formal schooling, so orcs can't be as smart as sedentary people." Which, of course, is total BS.
 

That's not a palatable justification for anything. It's promoting a narrative that the economically disadvantaged are incapable of learning from their life experiences. That's literally one step removed from saying, "Orcs are nomads with no formal schooling, so orcs can't be as smart as sedentary people." Which, of course, is total BS.
Intelligent is not "smart". It is knowledge.

It's knowing the the civil war started on April 12, 1861 (history), and the atomic number for gold is 79 (arcana).

Also, nothing says you can't read books while being nomadic. Many tribes had a historian in charge do teaching the young.
 

Given that the DMG has rules for custom backgrounds, a willing DM can work with a player to "customize" with the bare minimum of effort by simply swapping a attribute, skill or feat from one of the prefabs, without having to create a whole new background. In my game, I'd just ask the player to justify it.

Player: "I'd really like to take the Acolyte background for my cleric, with a +2 to Wisdom, but can I put the +1 into Con?"
DM: "Why would your character have received that benefit?"
Player: "They studied meditation during their training, able to keep their body fit even when going without food or water for extended periods."
DM: "Sold!"

Agree it is a trivially easy fix... but players may not know they can ask for it since it is in the DMG. I think THAT is the mistake in all this.
 

Agree it is a trivially easy fix... but players may not know they can ask for it since it is in the DMG. I think THAT is the mistake in all this.
Hopefully it will be well presented to new DMs as a totally fungible mechanic...because that is what it is.

Maybe a few example alternative Backgrounds along with the explanation of how to do it? It really is straightforward, it only seems they are separating it this way to help new players make smooth decisions.
 

Intelligent is not "smart". It is knowledge.

It's knowing the the civil war started on April 12, 1861 (history), and the atomic number for gold is 79 (arcana).

Also, nothing says you can't read books while being nomadic. Many tribes had a historian in charge do teaching the young.
You're right. Intelligence is knowledge. For example: knowing which gangs operate in a particular neighborhood; knowing where you can sleep in the park without being harassed by local law enforcement; knowing which commercial kitchens are willing to hand out leftovers; knowing which locals hire undocumented workers, no questions asked.

There's arguably no 5e skill that covers any of the above knowledge, so the only way for someone living on the street to know any of it would be to make an unmodified Intelligence check. So it's kind of silly the Wayfarer background, which is all about living on the street, can't improve Intelligence.
 

In 5e Classic feats were officially an optional rule played by 90% In 3.X Prestige Classes were officially optional. In 5.24? I predict custom backgrounds.
100% agree - I said so earlier - the vast majority of groups will use Custom backgrounds. But this will remain an issue for three reasons:

1) Some DMs are just difficult about this sort of thing. Some people flip genuinely lazy and ridiculous comments like "Just get a new DM if they won't immediately allow a Custom background!", which is just no real-world behaviour. Some DMs can be very good but very nervous anything optional or custom - especially newer DMs, in my experience.

2) Increasing numbers of people are using digital character management, and depending on how services, particularly Beyond, implement this, it could be fine or a huge pain. Right now, in Beyond, because Custom is player-side and always an option, it's literally the first option and the player can configure it. However, I'd be unsurprised if they changed that, and indeed took away the ability to create Custom backgrounds as part of the chargen process (for 2024 characters anyway), and instead forced you to build them, send them to the DM, have him manually add what you built to his campaign, and so on. Again this could go either way - it could be simply laziness from Beyond actually helps us and they just leave Custom in place and update it to give you a Feat instead a Background ability.

3) AL and other similar situations, depending on how they rule.

Nope. Other than the minifeat. Suboptimal, yes, but that's a long way from illegal. And 5e characters can keep playing as is.
No, you're missing my point. They couldn't build the same character again, because your backstory determines what abilities you're allowed to pick. If you backstory was you were an street urchin who stole a spellbook from a wizard and learned magic that way (not theoretical, this is a specific character a player had a while back), and you took the Urchin background (or whatever) and it doesn't allow INT to be boosted, you literally could not legally have your 16 INT character.

Sure existing characters can continue, but old ones could not be recreated under 2024 rules.

No you haven't. There's no stat anyone is forced to take and no penalty. "All elves are less tough" hasn't been part of official current D&D since 2008 and even if Con is an urchin stat you will get some (not many; it's Con) who haven't boosted it. What you have is "scholars tend to be smart and urchins tend to be tough". Both selection and training bias.
It's still a kind of bigotry and essentialism (just moving from biological to class or the like, and as a Brit, I know how vile that can be, even if most Americans pretend classism isn't really a thing), as much as people might pretend otherwise for the sake of argument. An Urchin literally cannot be as smart as anyone with an INT background - this by itself is hilarious because it's like 15% of the backgrounds of fantasy novel protagonists - i.e. they grew up on the streets or as a servant or whatever, but were smarter than the actual scholars etc. We know Noble has +INT, and Wayfarer (which I think is "the real Urchin" lol) does not have +INT, for example (I believe). That's crazy. That goes against so many fantasy novels and settings. It even goes against most D&D ones!
 
Last edited:

You're right. Intelligence is knowledge. For example: knowing which gangs operate in a particular neighborhood; knowing where you can sleep in the park without being harassed by local law enforcement; knowing which commercial kitchens are willing to hand out leftovers; knowing which locals hire undocumented workers, no questions asked.
Streetwise used to be a Cha skill.
There's arguably no 5e skill that covers any of the above knowledge, so the only way for someone living on the street to know any of it would be to make an unmodified Intelligence check. So it's kind of silly the Wayfarer background, which is all about living on the street, can't improve Intelligence.
There are always going to be issues when you try to simplify complex behavior into a few categories.

Writing with a quill takes Dexterity, lifting books takes Str, and staying up all night studying takes Con, but I doubt most people would have those as Scribe options.
 

Remove ads

Top