D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: Feats/Backgrounds/Species

[Parmandur]

I honestly hope that backgrounds force players to take more suboptimal-but-still-functional routes in character creation.

Force? Nah. But it doesn't overly penalize it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You only need four out of the six scores (SIWD) to be 8 or lower to be unplayable, Con and Cha aren't a factor. That is possible, though admittedly not overly likely, on 3d6 in order. That said, even if you manage to get a single 9, the ability to function in your class is still hampered.

But the bigger question for me is why?: why would you really want to play a character with terrible scores. Not in the "one bad score" model of weakness in an otherwise solid set, but in the "no score above a 12, multiple scores with penalties" model that 3d6 IO can produce? Is it fun when everyone else has great scores and you struggle with basic tasks? A fighter who misses most attacks, a thief who struggles with stealth and traps, a cleric with a chance to miscast their magic? A magic user who can't learn new spells? It's funny for a minute, but a whole campaign of being useless or worse, a resource drain on the party? Why?

I guess it's the same kind of challenge that playing Legend of Zelda without picking up the sword is: the thrill of playing with one hand tied behind your back. But the thing is, that is a deliberate flex, the game doesn't randomly decide if you get to use the sword or you're stuck without a weapon for most of the run.

If you want to play a suboptimal character, it should be a.) your choice, not a quirk of the dice and b.) the other players should be ok with you playing a character who isn't going to contribute as much. Neither should be randomly hoisted on a player unless they want.

You may not personally enjoy playing such a character, but you just admitted you can't really call them "nonviable" unless to you that word means, "I don't want to".

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm going to assume you are talking about 5e here.

Let's make your life cleric. First, I'm picking human life cleric because six +1s help.

S 8 (-1)
D 4 (-3)
C 7 (-2)
I 5 (-3)
W 9 (-1)
Ch 6 (-2)

AC 13 (scale, shield, Dex penalty)
HP 6
Init -3
Saves: Wis +1, Cha +0

Skills: history -1, religion -1, insight+1, medicine +1

Attacks: mace +1, 1d6-1. Light crossbow -1, 1d8-3
Spell atk. +1, DC 9
Prep: 1 spell + CLW and Bless (domain)

Notes: your spells prepped is Wis mod (-1) plus level (1), min 1. You will get 2 spells prepped at level 3.
Cure wounds: 1d8 (-1 Wis, +1 life domain)

Is that playable? Technically yes. You are going to struggle though. You will have very few spells prepped, your healing will be anemic in a game where healers already struggle and your attack or control magic will be very weak. You might get lucky with a sacred flame or the occasional attack roll with your mace, but otherwise your character is mechanically no better than a familiar with healing potions delivery. If that's your bliss, follow it. But that is a struggle of a character and there is a good chance you die to a good solid AOE or crit more than you live to see 9th level unless you play some low-dice rolling, high RP style of campaign.

Which comes back to, "I don't want to".

 

[Bacon Bits]

There's no such thing as an unviable character.

Maybe, but I don't think Gary Gygax agrees.

AD&D 1e Player's Handbook, p9:
"The game's premise is that each player character is above average — at least in some respects — and has superior potential. Furthermore, it is usually essential to the character’s survival to be exceptional (with a rating of 15 or above) in no fewer than two ability characteristics."

AD&D 1e Dungeon Master's Guide, p11:
"As AD&D is an ongoing game of fantasy adventuring, it is important to allow participants to generate a viable character of the race and profession they desire. While it is possible to generate some fairly playable characters by rolling 3d6, there is often an extended period of attempts at finding a suitable one due to quirks of the dice. Furthermore, these rather marginal characters tend to have short life expectancy — which tends to discourage new players, as does having to make do with some character of a race and/or class which he or she really can’t or won’t identify with."

It's also worth remembering that "six rolls of 3d6 in order" is never suggested as the generation method for PCs in AD&D (it's only suggested for NPCs). It is the listed method in B/X, but B/X also allows stat adjustments after rolling. Furthermore, a B/X 13 is about equivalent to an AD&D 15 (both about a +1) and a B/X 15 is about an AD&D 17 (~+2). The probability for 4d6k3 vs 3d6 actually supports this breakdown, if I remember right. Yeah, Gary inflated PC stats in AD&D.

 

[Remathilis]

@Remathilis don't forget as a life cleric you can take Chain Mail at 1st, so you're looking at AC 18 with a shield. Also, you're probably better off taking a +2 to Wis and +1 to Con at first level rather than variant human. Cure Wounds and Bless don't count against you're spells prepared, so you have those plus another 2 (Sanctuary and probably Detect Magic).

A difficult challenge for sure, but then I'm the type who likes playing BG3 on Honor Mode. Sure the above build would be tricky, especially at early levels, but once you start getting up around 8, between your Preserve life channel divinity and the stat bumps, you're going to be a pretty effective healer/buffer for the party.

Nope: chain mail requires a 13 STR to wear unless you want your speed reduced too. I guess you could be a hill dwarf and not suffer that penalty.

So I ran the same character as a hill dwarf and this is what I got:

S 6(-2)
D 3(-4)
C 10 (-1) 8 +2
I 4 (-3)
W 8 (-1) 7 +1
Ch 5 (-3)

AC 18 (chain, shield)
HP 9 ( +1 dwarf toughness)
Init -4
Saves: Wis +1, Cha +-1

Skills: history -1, religion -1, insight+1, medicine +1

Attacks: warhammer +0, 1d8-2. Light crossbow -2, 1d8-4
Spell atk. +1, DC 9
Prep: 1 spell + CLW and Bless (domain)

Notes: your spells prepped is Wis mod (-1) plus level (1), min 1. You will get 2 spells prepped at level 3.
Cure wounds: 1d8 (-1 Wis, +1 life domain)

You're still not making a double digit wisdom to get more than 1 spell prepped, but now I guess you're tanky enough to not die to one hit.
You can spend your time in turtle mode and bring up allies who drop to 0 with CW. You're still starting your own 20 yard line though. You are never hitting with a weapon except on high rolls, you're going dead last, and you're still one save (any save) away from disaster. I would not call that effective as much as "minimally acceptable".

Again, if you and your group want to babysit such a character until they reach a level of minimal competency, be my guest. Not my cuppa though and it's certainly not a superior way to play.

 

[MoonSong]

@Remathilis don't forget as a life cleric you can take Chain Mail at 1st, so you're looking at AC 18 with a shield. Also, you're probably better off taking a +2 to Wis and +1 to Con at first level rather than variant human. Cure Wounds and Bless don't count against you're spells prepared, so you have those plus another 2 (Sanctuary and probably Detect Magic).

A difficult challenge for sure, but then I'm the type who likes playing BG3 on Honor Mode. Sure the above build would be tricky, especially at early levels, but once you start getting up around 8, between your Preserve life channel divinity and the stat bumps, you're going to be a pretty effective healer/buffer for the party.

I'm reminded of a paladin I played on 4e. Low attack and defense scores, no attack powers, and thanks to feat selection I had a cleric multiclass and pacifist healer. Low AC wasn't a problem, thanks to plate mail. In combat I dispensed HP like candy and impossed control through divine sanction. All without ever attacking. The real challenge was the superdrowning skills I had (non existant strength does that to you) and which ended up killing the character. But that was a fun one.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Maybe, but I don't think Gary Gygax agrees.

I'm not referring to Ad&d, I mean with 5e.

 

[Remathilis]

You may not personally enjoy playing such a character, but you just admitted you can't really call them "nonviable" unless to you that word means, "I don't want to".

Which comes back to, "I don't want to".

Keep in mind my point such a character is more a liability than a boon. If your PC is going to spend most combats on the floor bleeding out, soaking up the actions and healing that could be used to support characters who act actually fighting the monsters, I question why that character is there. The character OB1 and I discussed in 5e is minimally viable as a healbot, but isn't contributing meaningfully beyond that. If your joy is to be a walking, talking potion of healing, that's fine. But don't be too surprised if the other players stop wasting their actions to stabilize you after the 30th time you go down in round one to a fireball or critical hit.

Look, I can't convince you that playing a character with all 3s isn't possible. I'm saying though it's not the enjoyable experience people who advocate for rolled scores say it is. If it was, Gary wouldn't have wasted space creating 12 alternative ways to generate ability scores in the DMG and UA, one of which becoming the default method in all subsequent versions of rolling (4d6).

All I'm saying is if you play a character that sucks and can't contribute meaningfully, don't be surprised if I don't waste precious resources to save them.

 

[OB1]

W 8 (-1) 7 +1
Ch 5 (-3)

AC 18 (chain, shield)
HP 9 ( +1 dwarf toughness)
Init -4
Saves: Wis +1, Cha +-1

Skills: history -1, religion -1, insight+1, medicine +1

Attacks: warhammer +0, 1d8-2. Light crossbow -2, 1d8-4
Spell atk. +1, DC 9
Prep: 1 spell + CLW and Bless (domain)

Notes: your spells prepped is Wis mod (-1) plus level (1), min 1. You will get 2 spells prepped at level 3.
Cure wounds: 1d8 (-1 Wis, +1 life domain)

You're still not making a double digit wisdom to get more than 1 spell prepped, but now I guess you're tanky enough to not die to one hit.
You can spend your time in turtle mode and bring up allies who drop to 0 with CW. You're still starting your own 20 yard line though. You are never hitting with a weapon except on high rolls, you're going dead last, and you're still one save (any save) away from disaster. I would not call that effective as much as "minimally acceptable".

Again, if you and your group want to babysit such a character until they reach a level of minimal competency, be my guest. Not my cuppa though and it's certainly not a superior way to play.

You're still forgetting about your bonus spells which don't count against the number you can prepare. So again, at 1st level, that's Cure Wounds and Bless always on, plus one more spell.

And you have a 25% less chance of hitting with an attack than an optimized player in this build. So you are hitting roughly 45% of the time (55% if you bless yourself, which will also help with those saves).

Totally get that it's not your cuppa, but not sure why this style would be any more or less superior than any other style. It's all about what the table finds fun. The point is, it is a build that is viable, and one that will lead to a unique story.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm not referring to Ad&d, I mean with 5e.

3d6 in order is not recommended in 5e either.