D&D General Defining "New School" Play (+)

[Desdichado]

But, and this is a big but,

I like those, and I cannot lie.
- Sir Mixalot

 

[bloodtide]

You asked how an archer could collect arrows if they were in cover, and firing 100 ft away. I answered.

Now you are accusing me of having all simple, easy, short combats where we always win and never retreat and the game pauses.

This does show the difference. I can think of 100 reasons why an archer could not recover arrows all the time in most combats. You don't seem to be anywhere close to that and just say it always happens.

Money can be a factor. I've used washers and d6's in a lot of fights. But you need a map to accurately show the position too. Unless you are just sketching a quick picture of positions? Which I've done a lot in New School too.

So money is a factor, but you have also done it the cheap way? You might want to pick a side.

You like more complex in your game play huh? Then why not use Theater of the Mind? It is far more complex to keep track of thirty or so individual positions in your head than to off-load that mental overhead into a map. I should know. There have been a lot of times we've been doing theater of the mind, then pulled out a piece of paper or gone to a nearby whiteboard to start sketching things out so everyone can keep track of it all.

Well, not every player can do it...some need the visual aid.

So, for Hard Fun and extra complexity, shouldn't you prefer the more complex and more difficult Theater of the Mind approach?

Well, only if you don't also do it. I'm trying to list unique Old School things.

Also all better trap design that works better, encourages better player behaviors, and creates more engaging story-telling.

Sure

Because in a true episodic series, where everything resets to base at the end of every episode, you can't have characters grow and change. Homer Simpson never gets a permanent promotion, just a temp one for the episode. But DnD characters level and change, they are not the same in session 30 as they were in session 3. So you cannot have a true episodic reset. You have an ongoing narrative of change, just not one with an overarching plot.

Have you never watched episodic TV? Other then the silly cartoon?

Everything? I doubt it. Most things? Probably.

Maybe

 

[mamba]

This does show the difference. I can think of 100 reasons why an archer could not recover arrows all the time in most combats. You don't seem to be anywhere close to that and just say it always happens.

there is a difference between being able to think of a hundred reasons and most of the fights matching any of those reasons

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Does anyone actually play with recovering arrows as a thing? I've always just seen DMs say that nonmagical ammunition is infinite because it's so cheap that no one is going to bother tracking how many you have, and then magical ammunition is consumable on use.

 

[mamba]

Does anyone actually play with recovering arrows as a thing? I've always just seen DMs say that nonmagical ammunition is infinite because it's so cheap that no one is going to bother tracking how many you have

no, never bothered, not in 1e and not since

 

[CandyLaser]

Even in D&D, I tend to use loss of ammo as something that happens based on PC and NPC actions in the narrative, rather than by counting shots. I like when games include that sort of mechanic by default. A couple of other light mechanics I've liked:

1) The usage die from Forbidden Lands (and other games; I think Torchbearer might be the origin, but I'm not sure). Rather than counting individual arrows, your supply of arrows is represented by a die. When you get out of a situation where you used arrows, you roll the die. If you get a 1-2, the die size goes down. When it hits d4, a 1-2 means it's gone. I like this because it simplifies bookkeeping, overhead, and tedious questions about precisely how many arrows get recovered after a fight, and it means that using arrows becomes an interesting question of risk management rather than an exercise in basic math.

2) The 4e-inspired Gamma World boxed set made ammo binary; you either have it or you don't. If you don't have ammo, you can't use your weapon. If you do have ammo, you can make one attack with it in a fight without spending ammo. If you make two attacks, you'll lose your ammo - but not until the end of the fight, so you might as well use it every round. You can get your ammo back when you get the chance to find, make, or buy it. This probably isn't good for D&D, unless you're playing a fairly harsh survival oriented game or if you're fairly lenient about getting ammo back (say, letting it come back after the party makes camp and the archer spends a couple hours fletching new arrows or whatever). I still think it's an elegant way to handle ammo tracking that also makes using ammo more of a consequential choice.

 

[payn]

Even in D&D, I tend to use loss of ammo as something that happens based on PC and NPC actions in the narrative, rather than by counting shots. I like when games include that sort of mechanic by default. A couple of other light mechanics I've liked:

1) The usage die from Forbidden Lands (and other games; I think Torchbearer might be the origin, but I'm not sure). Rather than counting individual arrows, your supply of arrows is represented by a die. When you get out of a situation where you used arrows, you roll the die. If you get a 1-2, the die size goes down. When it hits d4, a 1-2 means it's gone. I like this because it simplifies bookkeeping, overhead, and tedious questions about precisely how many arrows get recovered after a fight, and it means that using arrows becomes an interesting question of risk management rather than an exercise in basic math.

2) The 4e-inspired Gamma World boxed set made ammo binary; you either have it or you don't. If you don't have ammo, you can't use your weapon. If you do have ammo, you can make one attack with it in a fight without spending ammo. If you make two attacks, you'll lose your ammo - but not until the end of the fight, so you might as well use it every round. You can get your ammo back when you get the chance to find, make, or buy it. This probably isn't good for D&D, unless you're playing a fairly harsh survival oriented game or if you're fairly lenient about getting ammo back (say, letting it come back after the party makes camp and the archer spends a couple hours fletching new arrows or whatever). I still think it's an elegant way to handle ammo tracking that also makes using ammo more of a consequential choice.

I love usage die mechanics!

 

[ezo]

Does anyone actually play with recovering arrows as a thing?

Always have done it, from AD&D forward to now. The auto-recovery of half ammunition is a convenient rule for 5E, as it assumes the average between recovering none and recovering all...

I've always just seen DMs say that nonmagical ammunition is infinite because it's so cheap that no one is going to bother tracking how many you have, and then magical ammunition is consumable on use.

It is cheap, and much of the time drastically underweight. 20 arrows for a longbow for 1 lb? Please!!!

Of course, then you have rules in 5E that make tracking weight pretty much pointless as well.

If you are fine with gamist-playing instead of more simulation-playing, then yes don't bother tracking any of it. Nothing wrong either way, and I've considered dropping "ammo" myself, but currently I do and in the past I have.

 

[ezo]

1) The usage die from Forbidden Lands (and other games; I think Torchbearer might be the origin, but I'm not sure). Rather than counting individual arrows, your supply of arrows is represented by a die. When you get out of a situation where you used arrows, you roll the die. If you get a 1-2, the die size goes down. When it hits d4, a 1-2 means it's gone. I like this because it simplifies bookkeeping, overhead, and tedious questions about precisely how many arrows get recovered after a fight, and it means that using arrows becomes an interesting question of risk management rather than an exercise in basic math.

What does your supply die begin at? d20? d12? or what??

 

[CandyLaser]

What does your supply die begin at? d20? d12? or what??

In Forbidden Lands, it was capped at d12, and when you were in a settlement you could spend cash to increase the die size up to that point. Forbidden Lands actually uses this for pretty much all supplies - torches, food, and water are all tracked this way, though the conditions that trigger a roll of the die are different.