D&D General 5.5 and making the game easier for players and harder for DMs

[Distracted DM]

been playing with Bonus action potions and bonus 1st level feats for years now, and most PCs after every fight look like we just went on 12 rounds with Mike Tyson.

I'm missing the connection between the two

 

[Distracted DM]

For us, just increasing long rest to one whole day, instead of one night made the game way harder and more satisfying.
No fireball after fireball. No shield literally every round.

Separating "long rest" from "a nights sleep" should be the default IMO. The GM can decide if a long rest is a day, two days, a week, whatever- but once you make that separation player resources instantly become more manageable as the GM.

I first did this with gritty realism rests, a week being a LR and a day a SR, and that's when I found how powerful detaching rest=sleep is... But honestly I don't mind SRs being an hour, and I cut LRs down to two days.

 

[Remathilis]

Who'd have thought that giving players everything they want without limits, risk, or real challenge could possibly be bad for a game?

"19 out of 20 toddlers polled wanted more candy. You should see the candy options we're including! Polls don't lie!"

It never ceases to amaze me how much disdain DMs have for their players. Comparing them to toddlers? I'd walk out of your game on principle.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's not that this is so overpowered, but now a misty step means the player has to choose from a menu of options, and then the DM has to make a bunch of saving throws and keep track of who failed. It adds tactical complexity but also adds to the stack of things to keep track of. So in the aggregate, when all classes add to the stack in this way, such changes do make life harder for DMs. Now, again, whether this is a deal breaker is an individual preference.

Yep, entirely new and never before seen since the Eladrin were published two years ago with the exact same effect. Or the spell Thunder Step. Or the Wildfire Druid's Teleport. Or... huh, been a lot of "teleport then make a bunch of saves" effects in the game. What did DMs do for the past two years when Summer Eladrin Wildfire Druid's with Thunderstep on their list were in there party?

 

[tetrasodium]

Separating "long rest" from "a nights sleep" should be the default IMO. The GM can decide if a long rest is a day, two days, a week, whatever- but once you make that separation player resources instantly become more manageable as the GM.

I first did this with gritty realism rests, a week being a LR and a day a SR, and that's when I found how powerful detaching rest=sleep is... But honestly I don't mind SRs being an hour, and I cut LRs down to two days.

It used to be a phrase like "a good night's sleep and 1hr spent studying" or a specific time of day where the PC needs to spend an uninterrupted hour praying. 5e created the problem you are talking about fixing

 

[Distracted DM]

It never ceases to amaze me how much disdain DMs have for their players. Comparing them to toddlers? I'd walk out of your game on principle.

I don't think they were calling their players toddlers. They were making an analogy.

Many players want to feel like they've earned a victory, but they also want lots of cool powerful stuff. Many of them don't give thought to game balance, they take what advantages they can get so that they have a better chance of winning fights, not losing.

They don't realize that it's tough to be on the other side of the table, making encounters that are challenging without being murderous, or cake-walks that they have no problem with.

I have a couple players that have made optimized characters, and later on said "oh wow this is busted, I'm overshadowing the rest of the party" or "can we tone down this class? It's ridiculously good." Those players end up having more sensitivity to the matter going forward- but they're not every player.

 

[Distracted DM]

It used to be a phrase like "a good night's sleep and 1hre spent studying" or a specific time of day where the PC needs to spend an uninterrupted hour praying. 5e created the problem you are talking about fixing

I know 5e created the problem
I've played and run TTRPGs since 2e, I never had the issues with player resources that I've had with 5e. But 5e has been out for 10yrs now, I've been running it for 8- it weighs heavily in my memory.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I’ve been running the Yawning Portal version of Against the Giants for a four-PC party of characters at the level suggested by the module, and I have tried as hard as I possibly can to kill them without changing the module or pulling shenanigans, which was the deal from the get-go (the players wanted a more challenging and more deadly campaign than our last one)—and they have consistently stomped enormous battles way beyond what CR says they should be able to handle. And it’s not because I’m playing the monsters poorly (many of them are 5e sack-of-HP-witha-stick giants).

I used to love running and playing 5e until this experience made me realize that all the battle tactics and carefully planned turns ultimately boil down to the DM deciding whether the players win or lose—because unless the DM puts a thumb on the scale, the players will always win. I fear 5.5e exacerbates that “feature” of the game (though I still hold out a fool’s hope that the new MM will boost the monsters all around to match the undeniable player power creep). If so, I plan to start searching for groups that want to play a different game, because as a player I want to believe my tactical choices matter, and frankly I don’t anymore.

Are your players using Feats, Multi-classing or Magical Items? Because the adventure doesn't assume you have any of those.

If you are using those to increase player power... and your players want a harder game... then ask if they are willing to take those things out. IF they aren't, then you need to increase the power of the monsters. Even if it is as simple as just maxing their hp (remember, the hp listed is the average, you can use the max) and updating their equipment to be better.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Alternately... I don't know if you are somehow implying that you find success in handing players statblocks for monsters & just checking out to let the players run both sides of the combat for you with good results.

No. I simply mean, if they're (PC) the ones who applied a condition that needs to be tracked, then they are likely to remind you (DM) of it when it is important to remember it.

 

[tetrasodium]

.
I have a couple players that have made optimized characters, and later on said "oh wow this is busted, I'm overshadowing the rest of the party" or "can we tone down this class? It's ridiculously good." Those players end up having more sensitivity to the matter going forward- but they're not every player.

I've seen one step further by having had players fight me tooth and nail while drawing the group in against any "unfair" efforts I made to reign in those kinds of builds come back to me months later and apologize for that very behavior because they are now playing something else at someone else's table where a build like their old one is running unchecked in the hands of another player.

I'm tired of being wotc's backstop on unchecked munchkin PC (sub)class design and have zero interest in doing it in an edition where the lead rules designer is excited about describing it months before it even hits shelves.