D&D General On Early D&D and Problematic Faves: How to Grapple with the Sins of the Past

And again, it comes back to separating artist from art. If you acknowledge that an creator’s biases can impact their views, then it doesn’t really matter if they are writing fiction or non fiction. Those biases are going to have impact.
What a fun rabbit hole.

Since artists biases affect their work. Then it’s equally valid that our own biases affect our understanding of their work.

Doesn’t that mean our own biases preclude us from accurately judging any biases of others and thus also the concluded impact of whatever biases we believe they hold?
 

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If you decide to study an author, the time they wrote (also its reaction to previous times), and what they wrote, it inevitably puts their work into context. In that, a great many conclusions can be made, some explicit and others implicit. The meaning of an author's work can be explicitly stated by the author. When that happens, we, as readers, should consider it the true meaning.
Is there room for alternate interpretations? Sure. Can interpretations change with time and dynamic historical events? Sure. But the beauty of truly understanding literature is to take it into context. Unfortunately, that is incredibly difficult, as we live in a different era.
I think most of the issues come from what some readers believe is explicit, yet others believe are drawn conclusions. There is often a grey area there, just as there is a grey area when discussing the context of time.
All this interpretation has little to do with the impact of an author. That is determined by the whimsy of a select few or the ground movement of a cultural ideal.
 

If you decide to study an author, the time they wrote (also its reaction to previous times), and what they wrote, it inevitably puts their work into context. In that, a great many conclusions can be made, some explicit and others implicit. The meaning of an author's work can be explicitly stated by the author. When that happens, we, as readers, should consider it the true meaning.
Is there room for alternate interpretations? Sure. Can interpretations change with time and dynamic historical events? Sure. But the beauty of truly understanding literature is to take it into context. Unfortunately, that is incredibly difficult, as we live in a different era.
I think most of the issues come from what some readers believe is explicit, yet others believe are drawn conclusions. There is often a grey area there, just as there is a grey area when discussing the context of time.
All this interpretation has little to do with the impact of an author. That is determined by the whimsy of a select few or the ground movement of a cultural ideal.

Sure, but 80 to 90% of people don't care about dead authors and their opinions.

Even Hussar, who has been very very vocal in their dislike of H.P. Lovecraft and their virulent racism, has never once said that someone cannot enjoy works in the Mythos... the most they have ever stated is that they cannot enjoy them (because of the racism) and that they wish DnD didn't recommend the books to people (because of the racism).

And stating that Lovecraft was a racist, and that you don't want to read his works, because they are full of racism... really no one I have ever seen has seriously said that they can't understand the that viewpoint.

Where we tend to get a lot more muddled and complicated, is living authors. Because then there is no historical events to research and see that we live in a different Era. No... they live today, in our era. They are actively working in the industries they are in, they are actively shaping conversations around them. And sometimes those "alternative takes" on their work is important.

I mean, Rowling can state she had no alternative motives with her crime novel, but as a very active voice declaring that all transwomen are really predators seeking to harm women, and pushing for laws against their existence, making the murderer in her story a mentally unstable (and ugly) man who dresses as a woman (but is clearly an ugly man) to sneak into women's spaces to murder women.... Well, she can state that she wasn't pushing an agenda, but kind of hard to defend that, isn't it? And for many people, it becomes really concerning when people go and buy that particular book "because it is such a good story"

Or when the guy behind Shadiversity published his book that was practically pro-rape, right around the time his misogynistic beliefs were coming to light. Makes it really hard to say that you want to go and buy his book and support him, because it is REALLY clear what was motivating some of his writing. [I haven't read the book, but passages of it were read in a review I watched, and it was HORRIFYING]
 

Sure, but 80 to 90% of people don't care about dead authors and their opinions.

Even Hussar, who has been very very vocal in their dislike of H.P. Lovecraft and their virulent racism, has never once said that someone cannot enjoy works in the Mythos... the most they have ever stated is that they cannot enjoy them (because of the racism) and that they wish DnD didn't recommend the books to people (because of the racism).

And stating that Lovecraft was a racist, and that you don't want to read his works, because they are full of racism... really no one I have ever seen has seriously said that they can't understand the that viewpoint.

Where we tend to get a lot more muddled and complicated, is living authors. Because then there is no historical events to research and see that we live in a different Era. No... they live today, in our era. They are actively working in the industries they are in, they are actively shaping conversations around them. And sometimes those "alternative takes" on their work is important.

I mean, Rowling can state she had no alternative motives with her crime novel, but as a very active voice declaring that all transwomen are really predators seeking to harm women, and pushing for laws against their existence, making the murderer in her story a mentally unstable (and ugly) man who dresses as a woman (but is clearly an ugly man) to sneak into women's spaces to murder women.... Well, she can state that she wasn't pushing an agenda, but kind of hard to defend that, isn't it? And for many people, it becomes really concerning when people go and buy that particular book "because it is such a good story"

Or when the guy behind Shadiversity published his book that was practically pro-rape, right around the time his misogynistic beliefs were coming to light. Makes it really hard to say that you want to go and buy his book and support him, because it is REALLY clear what was motivating some of his writing. [I haven't read the book, but passages of it were read in a review I watched, and it was HORRIFYING]
I agree, judging authors that work in the present is much more difficult. We believe we understand the context of these authors, but there is a strong chance we don't. Today's standards also bring up the complexities of "how much" we know about an author, and whether or not that information superficial.
 

What a fun rabbit hole.

Since artists biases affect their work. Then it’s equally valid that our own biases affect our understanding of their work.

Doesn’t that mean our own biases preclude us from accurately judging any biases of others and thus also the concluded impact of whatever biases we believe they hold?
Sorry to answer it this way, but, define "accurately judging".

After all, we can look at actual evidence - direct quotes, various other sources - and present our arguments for whatever point we're trying to make. And, if those arguments are compelling enough to the reader, then we are "accurate" for a given value of accurate. Of course, later on down the line, someone else may come up with a different interpretation, even from the same direct quotes and sources, and that may also be "accurate".

Thus The Lord of the Rings both is and is not an allegorical work of the Second World War.

Depends on whose interpretation you favor.

The true problem is in thinking that there is one and only one conclusion to be found.
 

Thus The Lord of the Rings both is and is not an allegorical work of the Second World War.

Depends on whose interpretation you favor.

To be clear about my previous statements, I wasn't saying there is one true meaning of a work. There can definitely be lots of different meanings found. I just don't believe in cutting the author out entirely, or having the exercise of understanding the author's intended meaning not be important (I think that should be our first effort when we read something).

In the case of Lord of the Rings I always assumed it was allegory for WWI, but that aside, when it comes to stuff like this, there are areas of a work that are 'reasonable debate territory'. Tolkien may have rejected the idea that it was allegorical, but it is hard not to see how stuff like trench warfare wasn't working its way into the book, and how concerns about a large scale existential conflict wasn't also working its way into the book. I think what is important in those kinds of discussions is to at least note Tolkien's statements and try to give them a fair hearing. But author's can have subconscious things that make their way into a work. I would just generally be cautious about it
 

I find it a bit unnerving how a kind of quasi-religious worldview has taken over certain segments of the population, with baked in assumptions about what is or is not good, true, and right. This can be exemplified by the word "problematic," which is often used in a manner as if there is a clear and obvious Book of Law as to what is or is not problematic. This is the One, True Way that everyone must be, and if they aren't, they are Problematic! I mean, maybe that's always been the case, but it seems to have become more vociferous, with more fervor, the last decade or so.

What is so often lacking is a sense of cognitive fluidity and openness - not codifying one's opinions, not crystallizing around a certain group of tenets, taking each instance (and person) as unique, and questioning one's own assumptions, rather than knee-jerking and pointing the finger, always on the lookout for Problematic Material to go after. What is perhaps most disturbing is the diminishment of openness, of a sense of, "I don't know, it could be - this is what seems true to me." And instead we often get, "No, that is problematic! That is wrong! How dare you think otherwise?!"

"Problematic" is largely a matter of perspective; it is contextual to time, place, and community. It is not hard-wired into the fabric of the universe. Even culturally speaking, it varies by community and sub-culture and--perhaps most importantly--changes over time. What is often lost is that our finding something problematic according to the latest Proper Way to See Things isn't inherently true or of merit. It is a perspectival, temporal snapshot with baked in assumptions and underlying biases.

The latest Thing is probably not--probably never--the Final Thing. To put it another way, our finding something problematic today might be considered "problematic" tomorrow.

Not to mention that the very word itself implies that certain ways of seeing things that differ from our own, or what we deem to be true, are a problem - rather than, quite possibly, simply a different worldview based on different underlying assumptions. This is where I get that quasi-religious vibe: If it differs from my truth, it is a problem. Problems imply solutions, which is rarely just "let it be." This problem-solution mentality doesn't want us to accept two possibilities: One, people see things differently and that's OK, or at least, it is inevitable and beyond our control; two, it may be that how I see things isn't necessary the best or one-true-way to see them.

I also hear people castigating people of bygone eras for not transcending their context or not being ahead of the curve. Not only does this imply a monolithic direction of historical development (e.g. the term "wrong side of history," as if there is a singular historical path we must all take, and implies that we're on the right side!), but it assumes that the views one espouses now are the "one true way" one must think, and if only people could get with the program (even people from 50 years ago!).

I think more important than the ability to put your finger to the wind and adjust to the vue de jour in one's preferred community ("Wait, I forget, is this on the updated list of problematic things?"), is the capacity to be cognitively flexible and non-rigid. Part of this may be entertaining the idea that history--and how we see it--is like a vast water system with endless pathways, rivers, rivulets. It moves on, flows ever towards to sea. We can look back at some backwater and say, "That's problematic!" And in so doing, forget that we also will be looked back on some day, and we're all part of the same flow.

I would suggest that looking back at the past for something to call problematic is a mostly fruitless endeavor. What matters is who we are now and where we're going. Perhaps part of that comes from looking back and deciding who we want (or don't want) to be. We all have past generational elements that we are, hopefully, moving forward along the developmental curve (I'm frequently arguing with my Boomer father about "problematic" things he says, though often am an instant of my own complaint - expecting him to change, rather than just "letting be").

But we could also just release the grip a bit, and recognize that we're all products of our environment, our culture, caught in our own little backwater of history. The point, I think, is to transcend it right now - not what people did 50 years ago, but what we are doing now. Not our neighbor, but ourselves. What sort of artist, person, human being do we (do I) want to be? What is problematic to me? And does worrying about what others do, especially people of long ago, help that in any way, or does it merely prove to be a distraction?

In other words, why are we so insistent that others change, to the point--in some--of actually wanting to re-write who they were so that they are more palatable to our current sensibilities?

In looking at the past, I would suggest that we try to see and accept it as it actually was. That doesn't mean we condone it or have to be the same; if anything, it frees us to choose who we want to be. And in doing so, we change "what is problematic" from being about others, and thus what is outside of our control, and becomes more about our own personal empowerment in being who we want to be.
Google just released a study on Gen Z that showed that they get their news and opinions from influencers and their social media networks and never challenge or research their views or beliefs.

This is terrifying. Everything should be questioned as there is no true one way.

This is just as bad as fundamental religion and is just frightening.
 

Google just released a study on Gen Z that showed that they get their news and opinions from influencers and their social media networks and never challenge or research their views or beliefs.

This is terrifying. Everything should be questioned as there is no true one way.

This is just as bad as fundamental religion and is just frightening.
I'm not sure this is a Gen Z issue. It's not hard to find members of the Silent Generation, Baby Boomers, Gen X or Millennials who behave the same way, even if the talking heads they believe are on cable TV, AM radio or Sirius XM rather than dancing around on Tiktok.
 

I'm not sure this is a Gen Z issue. It's not hard to find members of the Silent Generation, Baby Boomers, Gen X or Millennials who behave the same way, even if the talking heads they believe are on cable TV, AM radio or Sirius XM rather than dancing around on Tiktok.
It was more difficult to avoid other information in the pre and early net days. You can be completely immersed in echo chambers now with algorithms pushing you farther down the rabbit hole.
 

It was more difficult to avoid other information in the pre and early net days. You can be completely immersed in echo chambers now with algorithms pushing you farther down the rabbit hole.
I feel like there are entire cable news channels, which helped create the problem, that would beg to differ.

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