WotC D&D Historian Ben Riggs says the OGL fiasco was Chris Cocks idea.

[TiQuinn]

I mean that’s the OGL in a nutshell.

Sorry but the debacle proved it wasn’t enforceable. A contract that cannot or will not be enforced was never worth anything.

Okay but I’m not really talking about the OGL itself, more about what they’re trying to do with DDB.

 

[Oofta]

Okay but I’m not really talking about the OGL itself, more about what they’re trying to do with DDB.

While also assuming that the 3PPs will somehow potentially be "knifed in the back". How? Worst case at some point DDB stops hosting them. But that just puts them back to where they were before DDB shared their content.

 

[Morrus]

Still irrelevant. That was the entire point. The first major challenge to the OGL and everyone dropped it like a hot potato.

Yup. They didn't need to revoke it in the end. Everybody did it for them! The OGL is pretty much as dead as the dodo.

 

[Morrus]

I don't see any "clearly" and no one has ever explained how a walled garden would work. Certainly allowing 3PP seems to contradict that, or we have different definitions.

I think it's best demonstrated thusly: try putting a book of yours on DDB. You can't. Not unless WotC lets you in through the gate. That's the "wall" part of the garden. Whether one thinks a walled garden is a good thing or a bad thing is another matter, but that's what one is.

 

[TiQuinn]

While also assuming that the 3PPs will somehow potentially be "knifed in the back". How? Worst case at some point DDB stops hosting them. But that just puts them back to where they were before DDB shared their content.

See Morrus’ response.

 

[Alzrius]

I'll push back on the "dead as a dodo" idea. While it's true that a lot of major companies have moved away from the OGL, there are plenty of talented small publishers that are still using it (I know because I'm buying their products). In many cases, these are highly innovative products that bring new twists to existing OGL systems, made possible by the fact that these publishers are in it more for creativity than to try and run a full-time RPG business.

 

[mamba]

While also assuming that the 3PPs will somehow potentially be "knifed in the back". How? Worst case at some point DDB stops hosting them. But that just puts them back to where they were before DDB shared their content.

that depends, if the market share does not change between now and then, you are correct.

If however DDB managed to capture a lot more market share (possibly because of the 3pps being on it) and WotC then turns around and ejects the 3pps in order to keep that market to themselves, then they are worse off than they were before because they now have access to a much smaller slice of the market only, and possibly helped creating the trap that kills them

 

[dbolack]

That's always been the thing that I found most odd about some people's reactions to the OGL debacle. The idea that they "no longer trust WotC".

I've NEVER trusted WotC, and I've been in business with them for 30 years!

Like you say: The only thing that you can "trust" is that they'll do whatever they think is best for them, and sometimes, they'll screw that up.

I think the change here is not an "I trusted them" to "I don't". It feels like, most of the time, "I trust that what they think is good for their business is usually good for the hobby" to "I no longer trust that what they think is good for their business is good for the hobby."

 

[Parmandur]

I think the change here is not an "I trusted them" to "I don't". It feels like, most of the time, "I trust that what they think is good for their business is usually good for the hobby" to "I no longer trust that what they think is good for their business is good for the hobby."

I trust that what is actually good for their business in reality is also good for the hobby. So, big mistakes may happen...but their selfish interest will in the long run bend towards the good of the hobby...particularly enforced by the hobbyists on the inside, even if not at the top.

 

[Oofta]

that depends, if the market share does not change between now and then, you are correct.

If however DDB managed to capture a lot more market share (possibly because of the 3pps being on it) and WotC then turns around and ejects the 3pps in order to keep that market to themselves, then they are worse off than they were before because they now have access to a much smaller slice of the market only, and possibly helped creating the trap that kills them

Why would they turn away those 3PPs? I see no logical reason.

One of the things they wanted from OGL change was to have a little bit of control over the biggest publishers and to make some money off of the 3PPs. Having 3PP on DDB is a win-win for companies that do sell their books on DDB because they get far more exposure and sales. It's a win for WotC because they get a percentage of sales.

Related - ideally anyone who wanted to sell anything D&D related would have an online marketplace opened up, but I think there are logistical and design issues at play. At a certain point, they would flood their own storefront. There would probably need a separate subdomain just for 3PP. I already wish I had better options for filters I can apply for any search or lookup.

In any case, it's not like they've told Kobold Press that they can't still publish their books, they are simply offering another venue. One that presumably benefits them both. Even if DDB stopped all 3PP tomorrow, that would just put those 3PP back to where they were before the agreement. No 3PP is dependent on DDB for their survival and I don't see that changing.