D&D General Player-generated fiction in D&D

[Umbran]

This brings something to mind that might be a bit of a tangent:

What is the difference between the above, and the situation where the player asks, "Hey, do I see a market stall near the wall, preferably where it is at a low point so maybe we can get over the wall that way?" and the GM, who hadn't thought of it before, decides "Sure, there's a cabbage stall next to a spot where the wall dips low."?

Is there a difference? Does knowing for certain they are inventing a detail impact the players? Is it not "player authored" if the Gm just goes with whatever the player says without acknowledging that the player made it up?

There's a sort of table etiquette difference - do you ask if it exists, or state its existence and wait for the GM to shoot it down? It is a table-agreement sort of thing.

But otherwise, I see no meaningful difference, and I would generally accept the player's suggestion that the stall exists, so long as taking advantage of that stall still requires a roll.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Given the frequency with which people indicate that immersion is important to them, I am not sure that player authored fiction is particularly desirable in D&D. All meta-mechanics break immersion to some degree, and letting players declare truths about the world rather than discover them is the ultimate meta-mechanic.

I find that many of the things which follow from classic GM authored setting and location -focused play creates, for me, a milieu so contrived that immersion is not really on the table. OTOH the more Narrativist approach let's me describe how I fit in and what I know in a more natural way.

 

[Aldarc]

That's a good video.

For clarity, I am NOT one of the pro immersion people. I like my game a little meta, because it is a game. But I understand those that do want to inhabit their characters and their world.

It's an okay video, as it's a bit lopsided on his presentation of the different issues. I disagree with his use of the stances and disassociated mechanics, and I don't think he bothers considering why people would like the use of metacurrencies or how they can contribute to greater immersion. But I don't think that all of his videos can be winners.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Here's an example of the sort of fiction that we have generated: A Monk, a Wizard, and a Swordmage Walk into a Fallcrest; a 4e Story Now game

The first part of the post is wrapping up an SC, Starn uses Arcana, plausibly, to move the fiction to a state where it agrees with the stated (by the GM a ways up thread) success outcome of the SC.

For transparency we discussed this out of band, so it represents a consensus as to a logical and fictionally consistent outcome.

The part after our arrival in Winterhaven is just something I included. It's consistent and feels appropriate in tone with the rest of the story so far. The GM is free to interpret that in a wide variety of ways. He can certainly use it to either directly launch another conflict, or maybe there'll be some bit of free RP or a check or two orienting things before the next challenge starts.

Either way, throughout, as Starn I'm describing what I know, my history and motivation, etc. all things real people carry around in their heads and act on in a similar way. Granted, it's imaginary and I am making it up. My guess is even in a more trad game I still have to do a lot of that, except there's a whole additional loop where the GM edits it all through their world author filter and tells me which things are acceptable to be in my head. I find that anti-emmetsive.

 

[Theory of Games]

are you ignoring the fact that the very next line after the one you bolded is a caveat saying they need to be able to provide reasonable justification for how the chosen skill can be used in that situation? i'd imagine that's there to explicitly prevent diplomacy based wall climbing.

Try ignoring players who throw that ridiculous rule in the GM's face. The only thing worse than brining up 4e is daring to call it a good game.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Try ignoring players who throw that ridiculous rule in the GM's face. The only thing worse than brining up 4e is daring to call it a good game.

I’m detecting that you might have the tiniest bit of bias on the matter.

 

[Theory of Games]

I’m detecting that you might have the tiniest bit of bias on the matter.

I just know trash when I see it. Along with all the D&D fans who after 4e landed, left WotC for Paizo's Pathfinder or dived into the OSR. 4e killed the brand and the only way to save it is to go 100% digital.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

There's a sort of table etiquette difference - do you ask if it exists, or state its existence and wait for the GM to shoot it down? It is a table-agreement sort of thing.

But otherwise, I see no meaningful difference, and I would generally accept the player's suggestion that the stall exists, so long as taking advantage of that stall still requires a roll.

It's been my experience there's a difference in the two examples just in play, but it may be hard to quite articulate it.

Skill challenges, I believe, are more narrative in the lines of '8 successes before 4 failures.' So, I don't see a disconnect of a player who's TRYING to find a way to justify working in a diplomacy roll into the skill chain asking if there's a market stall he can con the owner into letting he and the group climb. Or in a wilderness setting, someone using working a Nature check in since the previous person used Survival to remember certain mosses only grow on trees' northern side.

I think a lot of this is more seamless in actual play at the table than it is when people are having online discussions.

 

[KYRON45]

I just know trash when I see it. Along with all the D&D fans who after 4e landed, left WotC for Paizo's Pathfinder or dived into the OSR. 4e killed the brand and the only way to save it is to go 100% digital.

I'll take the bate....what would the brand have to look like for it to be successful? Correction.....alive.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I just know trash when I see it. Along with all the D&D fans who after 4e landed, left WotC for Paizo's Pathfinder or dived into the OSR. 4e killed the brand and the only way to save it is to go 100% digital.

Oh, goody, it's 2010! Nobody is taking the bait man. 4e works incredibly well for a whole range of play. You are not interested in that, which is fine. If you look at our PbP thread though, or the other 4e one's here, you can easily see it supporting our play quite effectively. I'd venture the observation that rather invalidates your statement above...