D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[CreamCloud0]

We were able to get a good set of "make your own background" rules, but can't get a good set of "make your own mixed-heritage" rules, even though there are far more background abilities to pick and choose from than species rules? I just don't think this is as complicated as people think. They're using something to balance these abilities already, just put that something in the DMG and reveal the point value system being used already by the rules creators.

personally, i'd just have them go through all the species stat-blocks and star and asterisk certain traits on each, 'if your character is a mixed species character these are the traits they will always have from each parent and these are the traits you have to pick between having', then at the end add a few notes about what happens if certain traits get picked twice.

 

[Minigiant]

personally, i'd just have them go through all the species stat-blocks and star and asterisk certain traits on each, 'if your character is a mixed species character these are the traits they will always have from each parent and these are the traits you have to pick between having', then at the end add a few notes about what happens if certain traits get picked twice.

Yeah if I'm creating a game where mix heritage is a possibility and a thing then I would design my species that it would be easy to figure out which traits would carry on in a mixed species.

Personally I will go to next step further and make each species have a category (Mammalian, Reptilian, Constructed) and only let species of the same category mix. Not dragonborn/elf mixes without magic.

Then label traits as dominant. A human's feat or an elf sentence might be the dominant aspects.

Or if that is too complicated just make stuff species and then list which subspecies are brought about by mixtures. A Dwarf and Halfling creates a stout Halfling. Orc/dwarf, human/dwarf, and Goliath/dwarf are all multiple dwarves.

But this goes to the main point

D&D considers half elves and half orcs is important aspects of the core game, therefore they should be an SRD.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

personally, i'd just have them go through all the species stat-blocks and star and asterisk certain traits on each, 'if your character is a mixed species character these are the traits they will always have from each parent and these are the traits you have to pick between having', then at the end add a few notes about what happens if certain traits get picked twice.

Yeah I thought something similar would be good. Give each species 'features A and features B'. When using a mixed ancestry, you pick A from one species and B from the other.

But that doesn't actually address the part where WotC thinks that even the lore existence of mixed species is bad, which is why they're going along retconning them out of prior adventures.

 

[Remathilis]

sure, all the more reason to give it some thought and not go for the laziest solution possible


throwing your hands in the air is no solution at all, and saying it is not easy is not an excuse for not trying. They could have a decent solution and anyone not liking it could still homebrew. I'd say A5e's approach would get a lot better reception than what we got.

OR.... consider this... the idea of species mixing DOESN'T FIT in the PHB and rather than half-ass it, they will address it in a supplement. In the meantime, you can use whatever system you like and when WotC releases theirs, you can decide if you like it better or worse.

The problem is everyone wants their options 1.) Now and 2.) in the PHB. The damn PHB is the biggest its ever been, but there is still not room for everything. I would not be surprised if they give rules for mixed ancestry later after the PHB is done because they don't have the time to put it through its paces.

You provide a few options (Half Orc and Half Elf) with an understanding that all of these species besides Human are fantastical with no relation to real cultures today and you let folks pick what they feel represents them.

But there has to be options to choose, and Wizards erased them.

They're still redundant options that by their existence that imply they are the only legitimate crossbreeds, with names that invoke half-breed stereotypes. If you want to play one, the 2014 version is available.

We were able to get a good set of "make your own background" rules, but can't get a good set of "make your own mixed-heritage" rules, even though there are far more background abilities to pick and choose from than species rules? I just don't think this is as complicated as people think. They're using something to balance these abilities already, just put that something in the DMG and reveal the point value system being used already by the rules creators.

So what are you cutting out the PHB to fit an entire "mix your species" system in? Two subclasses only? Maybe they cut the druid and its spells and wildshape stats? Or the DMG could cut Bastions or Greyhawk? Where are you fitting rules that are going to balance aarakroca dragonborn flying the breathing fire on everyone?

And NONE of you answered my two hypotheticals: what do you do with a Turani/Shou and a Drow/High elf using the current system? The reason is because you can't do anything except "pick a set of stats, and flavor in the other parent." Culture in D&D has no rules, so showing Turani and Shou heritage is 100% flavor text and description. The high/drow elf still must choose if they are getting a wizard cantrip or 120 ft darkvision. The problem has ALWAYS existed, but because they removed two redundant half-races, people are crying about it.

 

[Remathilis]

personally, i'd just have them go through all the species stat-blocks and star and asterisk certain traits on each, 'if your character is a mixed species character these are the traits they will always have from each parent and these are the traits you have to pick between having', then at the end add a few notes about what happens if certain traits get picked twice.

All fine and good, assuming the 10 PHB species are the only species that can interbreed with each other. Otherwise, you need a new MotM printed tomorrow since the overwhelming majority of 5e species are NOT built to intermix like that.

 

[mamba]

OR.... consider this... the idea of species mixing DOESN'T FIT in the PHB and rather than half-ass it, they will address it in a supplement.

I doubt it, they have given us their idea of mixing and it is ‘pick one of the two’

So what are you cutting out the PHB to fit an entire "mix your species" system in? Two subclasses only? Maybe they cut the druid and its spells and wildshape stats?

please let it be the Bard…

 

[Mecheon]

You provide a few options (Half Orc and Half Elf) with an understanding that all of these species besides Human are fantastical with no relation to real cultures today and you let folks pick what they feel represents them.

But there has to be options to choose, and Wizards erased them.

Ultimately I think it was the better choice to do so. You need to have a wide spectrum of options for people to pick from and, well, D&D's not been good at that in the past. Human, short human, elf, human/elf was never a diverse set of options

Half orc being playable while orc wasn't has always been a Weird Look on D&D's history. While I understand half elves have their fans, they've equally had the issue of "Okay we already have full human and elf as options already, now we're taking up more space with half elves that are just the mid-way between the two". They had their fans, but from a mechanical perspective they never offered anything new to the table. They're just a soft mid-way between the other options, and its hardly like human and elf are extremes.

If I have to lose something unique for half elves and half orcs, I'd prefer them being shoved to the side every time. The beginning options should be simple things you can easily look at and go "Yeah I know that archetype", and be diverse enough from each other you can see how they fit into different archetypes. Half elves have failed at that and half orcs failed at it so hard they had assassin as their go-to which isn't necessarily what people who want to play orcs want to do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah if I'm creating a game where mix heritage is a possibility and a thing then I would design my species that it would be easy to figure out which traits would carry on in a mixed species.

Personally I will go to next step further and make each species have a category (Mammalian, Reptilian, Constructed) and only let species of the same category mix. Not dragonborn/elf mixes without magic.

Then label traits as dominant. A human's feat or an elf sentence might be the dominant aspects.

Or if that is too complicated just make stuff species and then list which subspecies are brought about by mixtures. A Dwarf and Halfling creates a stout Halfling. Orc/dwarf, human/dwarf, and Goliath/dwarf are all multiple dwarves.

But this goes to the main point

D&D considers half elves and half orcs is important aspects of the core game, therefore they should be an SRD.

They are taking them out of the Player's Handbook. How important can they be to to them?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah I thought something similar would be good. Give each species 'features A and features B'. When using a mixed ancestry, you pick A from one species and B from the other.

This is basically how Level Up does it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

All fine and good, assuming the 10 PHB species are the only species that can interbreed with each other. Otherwise, you need a new MotM printed tomorrow since the overwhelming majority of 5e species are NOT built to intermix like that.

they can take the opportunity of the new rewrite to buff the species some more then.