D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[TiQuinn]

So does moving require its own separate roll to determine if your movement is louder than a whisper?

Do the conditions of heavily obscured and 3/4ths cover have to remain in place throughout, i.e. if you’re hiding in the darkness and it suddenly gets illuminated, are you still hidden? Can you actually see in a heavily obscured place? Shadows are dim light for instance.

 

[Charlaquin]

Wow, this semms really really bad. So someone can step into the bushes and "hide", then walk in broad daylight with zero cover from anything and stroll past 100 people undetected. They can't even notice the rogue, because you need to choose to make a perception action to attempt to detect them? Why would you randomly make a perception check to look for something invisible?

What a design fail

So, after some discussion and analysis, I don’t think that’s actually RAI. There is a sidebar about passive perception, so it does seem to still be a thing, so if a creature’s passive perception is higher than the rogue’s stealth check, it should still find the rogue. Additionally, there seems to be some ambiguity about if the “invisible” condition actually makes you invisible. Two of its benefits specifically don’t apply to creatures that “can somehow see you,” and I think it’s safe to say that if a rogue is not actually under the effects of the invisibility or greater invisibility spell, a potion of invisibility, or a magic item that turns them invisible, then any creature with line of sight to them should be interpreted as being able to “somehow see” the rogue, even if that makes the condition stupidly named.

The interpretation I will be going with until/unless new information is revealed that changes my mind is this:

To hide, a character needs 3/4 or full cover or heavy obscuration, and then must succeed on a Dexterity (Stealth) check against the higher of 15 or the highest passive perception among hostile creatures in the vicinity. On a success, the character gains a condition that grants them advantage on initiative rolls, advantage on attack rolls against creatures that can’t see them, and imposes disadvantage on attack rolls against them made by creatures that can’t see them. This condition ends if the hidden character makes a sound louder than a whisper, makes an attack roll, or casts a spell with a verbal component, if they enter the vicinity of a hostile creature with a higher passive perception than their stealth roll, or if a creature uses the search action and beats their stealth roll with a Wisdom (Perception) check.

If we just ignore that the condition is called “invisible,” all of this is mostly reasonable. I don’t really like the DC 15 floor for the stealth check, or the fact that any creature detecting the rogue “breaks” their stealth for all other creatures. But other than that I think it’s actually fine.

 

[Charlaquin]

So does moving require its own separate roll to determine if your movement is louder than a whisper?

The text doesn’t suggest so, but I think that might be a reasonable DM judgement call, particularly if circumstances suggest moving would be noisy (crunchy leaves underfoot or suchlike)

Do the conditions of heavily obscured and 3/4ths cover have to remain in place throughout, i.e. if you’re hiding in the darkness and it suddenly gets illuminated, are you still hidden?

From my reading, those conditions are only required to make the initial roll. Losing cover or obscuation might, however, make creatures “somehow able to see you,” which does not actually end the invisible condition, but does explicitly negate all of its benefits besides advantage on initiative rolls.

Can you actually see in a heavily obscured place? Shadows are dim light for instance.

My understanding is that the cover and obscuration rules have not changed, so a heavily obscured area blocks vision completely. Dim light provides only light obscuration, which is not sufficient to attempt to hide.

 

[TiQuinn]

The text doesn’t suggest so, but I think that might be a reasonable DM judgement call, particularly if circumstances suggest moving would be noisy (crunchy leaves underfoot or suchlike)

I think that’s the problem with trying to give comparative examples. To me, moving around is louder than a whisper typically and I’m not walking around carrying a sword in a scabbard or wearing armor.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think that’s the problem with trying to give comparative examples. To me, moving around is louder than a whisper typically and I’m not walking around carrying a sword in a scabbard or wearing armor.

Setting consistency is regularly trumped by game consistency (which I hate, but whatever), but this doesn't even seem to meet that bar.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think that’s the problem with trying to give comparative examples. To me, moving around is louder than a whisper typically and I’m not walking around carrying a sword in a scabbard or wearing armor.

I suspect the intent is that the stealth check is meant to represent silencing your incidental noise, and that the “make a sound louder than a whisper” clause is meant to refer to sounds you make intentionally.

 

[TiQuinn]

I suspect the intent is that the stealth check is meant to represent silencing your incidental noise, and that the “make a sound louder than a whisper” clause is meant to refer to sounds you make intentionally.

But part of the confusion up thread is over whether someone can “invisibly” slip past a guard, and the entry as given doesn’t really talk about movement either - it seems to suggest that you’re invisible effectively as long as you stay in one place.

 

[Quickleaf]

Uff, that's goofy on so many levels.

 

[Charlaquin]

But part of the confusion up thread is over whether someone can “invisibly” slip past a guard,

I would say no. Stealth doesn’t actually make you invisible, the condition is just poorly named.

and the entry as given doesn’t really talk about movement either - it seems to suggest that you’re invisible effectively as long as you stay in one place.

Since it doesn’t talk about movement, there’s no reason to assume movement is relevant at all.

 

[TiQuinn]

Since it doesn’t talk about movement, there’s no reason to assume movement is relevant at all.

Fair enough though in 5e there’s some discussion around sneaking up on someone in combat so maybe there’ll be more guidance in the combat section.