D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Pauln6]

I will say this about D&D2024:

I kinda like that you're allowed to do the Solid Snake "Hide behind a corner from people chasing you with guns and they forget you exist" thing. I think that's A-class game design.

No. I'm not joking.

Being able to duck down an alleyway and make a Stealth Check to yank yourself up out of view or dive into a pile of trash well enough to 'vanish' and have the people chasing you turn the corner and be unable to find you enables -so- many media tropes.

Particularly the "Sneak behind someone while they're looking the wrong way" mechanic.

Unless, of course, they take the "Search" action to actively try and find you.

I would make the following changes:

1) Make it a Stealth Check against the enemy's highest passive perception (for mixed groups)

2) Make the Search Check be against your passive stealth (barring 'share stealth' mechanics)

3) Nix the use of the word Invisible which gives people unreasonable expectations of quasi-magic stealth.

4) Create the "Hidden" condition. It's basically the exact same thing as Invisibility as written, but the Invisibility spell grants you the Hidden Status rather than Stealth granting you Invisibility is a -much- easier pill for most people to swallow.

5) The Invisibility spell and other similar spells instead allow you to maintain the Hidden condition even without cover or concealment. That's how the Invisibility spell "Breaks the Rules" of stealth. That's it. Problem solved.

6) You are able to move on your turn while remaining Hidden (if you have the Hidden condition) by making an active Stealth check against the highest Passive Perception of creatures in the area. But you lose the Hidden condition if you don't end your movement with cover or concealment.

I like that they set a base DC of 15 to stealth so that monsters (or more likely pcs) can't automatically detect those trying to hide from them.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Does that make it better?

No, but they have had spells that do not do what they say in the tin before. For the record, I have always found regular invisibility to be a problem and would much prefer it as a spell that cause people to ignore you rather than a true invisibility. It makes coordination in infiltration possible and, in my belief make more sense from a worldbuilding and narrative perspective, while being effectively the same thing.

 

[mellored]

let them gain the benefits of the Invisible condition for a turn longer than they otherwise might.

Congratulations: you just used two whole actions on giving yourself advantage on an attack

Assume they don't make a noise, and don't attack, and don't cast a spell with a verbal component.

How long does it last?

As soon as they leave cover?
At the end of their turn if they don't have cover?
Indefinitely?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I will say this about D&D2024:

I kinda like that you're allowed to do the Solid Snake "Hide behind a corner from people chasing you with guns and they forget you exist" thing. I think that's A-class game design.

No. I'm not joking.

Being able to duck down an alleyway and make a Stealth Check to yank yourself up out of view or dive into a pile of trash well enough to 'vanish' and have the people chasing you turn the corner and be unable to find you enables -so- many media tropes.

Particularly the "Sneak behind someone while they're looking the wrong way" mechanic.

Unless, of course, they take the "Search" action to actively try and find you.

I would make the following changes:

1) Make it a Stealth Check against the enemy's highest passive perception (for mixed groups)

2) Make the Search Check be against your passive stealth (barring 'share stealth' mechanics)

3) Nix the use of the word Invisible which gives people unreasonable expectations of quasi-magic stealth.

4) Create the "Hidden" condition. It's basically the exact same thing as Invisibility as written, but the Invisibility spell grants you the Hidden Status rather than Stealth granting you Invisibility is a -much- easier pill for most people to swallow.

5) The Invisibility spell and other similar spells instead allow you to maintain the Hidden condition even without cover or concealment. That's how the Invisibility spell "Breaks the Rules" of stealth. That's it. Problem solved.

6) You are able to move on your turn while remaining Hidden (if you have the Hidden condition) by making an active Stealth check against the highest Passive Perception of creatures in the area. But you lose the Hidden condition if you don't end your movement with cover or concealment.

I completely agree, I think that making regular invisible as a hidden/not noticed condition is much better way of looking at this and I think that is the way I will go with it.

 

[Maxperson]

They also say specifically that "being found" also breaks the invisibility condition.

Yes, but the same paragraph says HOW to find the hider. DC perception equal to hide check. You have to completely ignore the context of the paragraph to read it as any way you find the person breaks the invisibility.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Yes, but the same paragraph says HOW to find the hider. DC perception equal to hide check. You have to completely ignore the context of the paragraph to read it as any way you find the person breaks the invisibility.

I simply disagree.

 

[Maxperson]

If you walk in front of someone, they have found you (they didn’t even have to search.) It’s like being really bad at hide and seek.

Not if you have the invisible condition which = invisible.

 

[Charlaquin]

Find traps is pretty notorious and since 2014 and it is apparently unchanged in the new rules, fails to actually find any traps.

But that’s not a case of a spell having a secret function that the rules text of the spell doesn’t describe. That’s just a case of a spell being poorly named.

 

[Thommy H-H]

Assume they don't make a noise, and don't attack, and don't cast a spell with a verbal component.

How long does it last?

As soon as they leave cover?
At the end of their turn if they don't have cover?
Indefinitely?

Why does it matter? If they're not doing anything with the Invisible condition, they might as well not have it. Remember: the condition says nothing about awareness. They can wander around being "Invisible" for as long as they like, but other creatures are free to make Wisdom (Perception) checks to spot them or simply wander over and hit them (albeit with disadvantage). At that point, the player would need to make a pretty convincing case for not having made "a noise louder than a whisper". And even if they do that, or with the Silence spell in play, the effect is still just advantage/disadvantage. They're not going full Bilbo.

I get why people are struggling with this - the language is counterintuitive - but if you actually play out how it would work in practice, no one's going to be able to stay Invisible longer than a couple of turns under these conditions, and the benefits are marginal once combat has started. Once a Rogue can use Steady Aim, for example, they can get advantage far more easily anyway so letting them take whatever elaborate steps they want to to maintain the Invisible condition is actually detrimental to their action economy.

 

[Maxperson]

If you have to invent all these unwritten procedures to make sense of the stealth rules, the stealth rules are written poorly.

This.