D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

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[Quickleaf]

Ok, here is a third option that is a combination of the two (plus added the wings back in):

View attachment 375178

Leaving aside my issues with their layout, I really like your compromise here with the Bite and Tail attack sort of being "Schrödinger's cats" / "quantum ogres" where they don't become true to the narrative until the dice say so. Very creative approach!

 

[dave2008]

Sorry, I haven't read all 27 pages of this, but I was wondering if lairs could be like the cradles of the scions and be a separate monster (except they are active at the same time as the monster whose lair it is). If you can get the monster out of the lair, the lair monster basically shuts down (until the lair's boss gets back in it).

Could be, but I don't think that is what they are doing. If that was the case, giving the dragon extra abilities in the Lair like this stat block does seems like a bit of overkill. Not that I would have a problem with that!

 

[mamba]

As others have noted, I believe they have changes those spells and abilities so that they only effect OA. Therefore bespoke reactions are no different from Legendary Actions now except for the trigger (and some of those are usually the same).

yes, saw that later, so no need to do anything

 

[MonsterEnvy]

making room. Those traits are unnecessary IMO. battle ready is really only there to explain why it has a 23 on initiative and amphibious is best left to descriptive text, it doesn't belong in a stat block IMO.

It has a plus 8 on Initiative and assuming you are rolling the person should know they are rolling at advantage. You also took out its buffs for being in its lair.

The fact that you removed them for space is making me for sure thinking consolidating the Dragon’s attacks into Rend was the right move.

 

[dave2008]

@Stalker0 , would something like this be a fair compromise? Revised Ancient Green version 2

 

[dave2008]

It has a plus 8 on Initiative and assuming you are rolling the person should know they are rolling at advantage. You also took out its buffs for being in its lair.

I removed the lair buffs because I would want those to be with the Lair Actions which I would add back in as I am pretty sure this is replacing them in 2024.

The initiative one I can go either way. I think it is a good space savings regardless of whether or not you change the rest of the stat block.

PS - I also removed the Charisma part of the spellcasting as i think that is not needed as well. Is there a reason we need to know the ability used?

The fact that you removed them for space is making me for sure thinking consolidating the Dragon’s attacks into Rend was the right move.

There is definitely an argument for that. However, I would also argue that a ancient dragon should be a full page (or nearly so) stat block with even more awesome options!

What do you think of my hybrid approach? Revised Ancient Green version 2

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Could be, but I don't think that is what they are doing. If that was the case, giving the dragon extra abilities in the Lair like this stat block does seems like a bit of overkill. Not that I would have a problem with that!

I suppose you are right, but I really liked the cradles.

 

[dave2008]

I suppose you are right, but I really liked the cradles.

It was an interesting idea, but it is a lot of work to create two stat blocks for one monster. 4e did this with Lolth and I've done it a few times in 4e and 5e, but it always starts to drag (when I am designing it, not in play)

Luckily, Bigby's still works with the 2024 rules, so no loss, and you can apply to concept to other monsters if you want.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Again, I think it is less about what you or I can do. I am thinking about others less experienced, willing, or able to work outside the box.

And even beyond different effects, the attacks should have different ranges. I mean look at the art - that tail has a lot longer reach than the claws!

Also, as I have said repeatedly, I am not opposed to the generic rend type attacks in general. I am just trying to find some middle ground that would satisfy both sides. I am not having much luck.

I'm not sure what middle ground you are looking for, because people who are less willing to alter the mechanics of the attack are not going to alter the mechanics of the attack. But they may be more than willing to alter the flavor and story of the attack. Which can be plenty.

Because sure, the tail has a longer reach than the claws... but is it longer than 15 ft? If not, then all you are really saying is that if the dragon is hitting someone at the edge of their range, they should bite or use their tail. Which is again, just a matter of flavoring. Having a claw attack that does basically the same damage, but only has a reach of 10 ft.... isn't really going to make the fight any tactically different.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Bite and claws seem to be changing to rend attacks for the most part from the look of the PHB.

Like the Lion for example

Edit:2014 Lion

View attachment 375152

Oooh, I love that new lion statblock. That looks fun