D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[MonsterEnvy]

Because there is no downside to it and it makes them better at the social pillar. The bigger question is why wouldn't they if they can so easily?

Cause then I am pointlessly delaying getting my fighter abilities for a sidegrade at best.

 

[payn]

Because there is no downside to it and it makes them better at the social pillar. The bigger question is why wouldn't they if they can so easily?

Can you blame them for not wanting to be better, but to be able to do anything in the social pillar?

 

[ECMO3]

Fighters, if you want a bonus action attack you will be picking up PAM, GWM, Crossbow Expert, or Dual Weapon Master. With weapon Masteries I just don't see a fighter doing unarmed except for in an emergency.

Good points on PAM and CBE. I am not sure that outshines a bonus action martial attack though, especially you don't even need to make an attack action to do it.

Dual Weapon feat is going to be good, but it will be wierd to use in terms of juggling and likely banned at a lot of tables.

A Figghter 1-Monk-1 with nick can 3 attacks a round, every round, at level 2 with strength or dexterity bonus to all of them. None of these others will do that and the feats you mention don't come online until 4th level.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It has, but I think the difference between non-dipped and dipped now is greater.

It’s not.

 

[Minigiant]

Based on what I have seen so far I would disagree. Based on what I have seen so far, a 1-level dip will be better at every single level except 5 and possibly 20.

Also on Fighter that dips Warlock you are not even slowing down extra attack on a Paladin that dips Warlock you are getting more attacks at high levels.

Well that's the rub.

Are you really planning to play till level 20?

Because that's the issue what many theorycraft builds. You are stunning your power growth by dipping. So the dip has to be worth slowing down getting the base power progression of the base class.

Slowing down your spellcasting or extra attack or feats for a better unarmed strike or a build that takes X levels to turn on might not be worth it

 

[ECMO3]

Because there is no downside to it and it makes them better at the social pillar. The bigger question is why wouldn't they if they can so easily?

You are delaying extra attack one level. So at level 5 you don't get extra attack. At virtually every other level the abilities you get on the dip are going to be better than the abilities you have at that level.

For example in a game that runs level 1-6 you are stronger at levels 2, 3, 4 and 6 (a LOT stronger at 2 and 3). You are the same at level 1 and worse at level 5.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Can you blame them for not wanting to be better, but to be able to do anything in the social pillar?

Honestly giving them a Charisma bonus is not super needed as they now gain the ability to add a D10 to any failed ability check.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

You are delaying extra attack one level. So at level 5 you don't get extra attack. At virtually every other level the abilities you get on the dip are going to be better than the abilities you have at that level.

For example in a game that runs level 1-6 you are stronger at levels 2, 3, 4 and 6 (a LOT stronger at 2 and 3). You are the same at level 1 and worse at level 5.

Delaying Extra attack seems awful, and I don’t see how making Charisma your attack stat makes a fighter stronger at those levels.

 

[ECMO3]

Well that's the rub.

Are you really planning to play till level 20?

Because that's the issue what many theorycraft builds. You are stunning your power growth by dipping. So the dip has to be worth slowing down getting the base power progression of the base class.

Slowing down your spellcasting or extra attack or feats for a better unarmed strike or a build that takes X levels to turn on might not be worth it

Slowing down spell casting is not a thing for Monks or most Fighters. A Paladin who dips Warlock gets a rechargable 1st level slot and better spell options. So the spells is a minor concern for rangers at some levels.

I guess if you are building primarily a Ranger spell caster that is an issue at even levels. That is something I do sometimes so I get it. But for a primary weapon user I think you are a lot better and you are only talking about 1 level lower and only on even levels.

If you are talking about martial abilities you are not slowing your growth, you are greatly accelerating it. Your Ranger-Monk dip gets 3 attacks at level 2. Your fighter-Monk gets 3 attacks if you go light or a 2nd attack if you go heavy. Your Paladin gets a short-rest recahrgable smite.

Level 2 blows away a single class level 2. That narrows at higher levels, but like I said except level 5 you are ahead of the single class build pretty much everywhere.

 

[ECMO3]

Delaying Extra attack seems awful, and I don’t see how making Charisma your attack stat makes a fighter stronger at those levels.

With a Monk dip you are getting an extra attack at level 2, 3 and 4.

With a Warlock dip you have a spell slot and you attack with Charisma, letting you prioritize that. When you say "delay extra attack" that is only at level 5, and at that level you will admittedly be worse than a single-class fighter. But at level 2, 3, 4, 6-10 that is not relevant.