D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[mellored]

How many players know when their character comes close to resembling the character in their heads? I can't imagine many players know what they want their character to be like right from the get-go.

There where plenty of "suggestions" durring the playtest to move all subclasses to level 1. Which would make multiclassing more potent.

With 2024, they spread things out more, and gave higher level martials more cool abilities. So there is less incentive to multiclass.

Also, if you don't know what your character is going to be, then you really want multiclassing so you can change directions.

 

[Kinematics]

Mostly unrelated aside: Do you mind if, in possible future threads here on ENWorld, I cite this post as an example of a phenomenon I have seen with regard to 5e? That is, the fact that it took you a year of adventuring just to reach level 4. This is demonstrative of a pattern I had seen, and which folks have questioned whether it ever happens at all. If you have any reason for saying "no", regardless of what it is, I am perfectly happy with that.

I have no issue with that.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Mostly unrelated aside: Do you mind if, in possible future threads here on ENWorld, I cite this post as an example of a phenomenon I have seen with regard to 5e? That is, the fact that it took you a year of adventuring just to reach level 4. This is demonstrative of a pattern I had seen, and which folks have questioned whether it ever happens at all. If you have any reason for saying "no", regardless of what it is, I am perfectly happy with that.

In my game my players often go long without level up, because they like to pick sidequests they know won't level them up but give extra loot, they make up for slow leveling with monty haul.

Also, in-universe the opposite problem is prevalent - PCs go from killing rats in a basement to slaying gods in a manner of a year max.

 

[ECMO3]

The conflict is
"I want to do my cool stuff at level 1 so I can play the character I want sooner.".

And thus, taking level 1 multiple times gives you more cool stuff than going to higher levels.

For some reason we seem to accept "cool magic" is reserved for higher levels though. Which is why multiclass casters are rare.

In 5E full casters with a Cleric dip for heavy armor are pretty common IME. Don't lose any spell slots, get Guidance, Healing word, Sanctuary and a couple subclass spells. You do lose your highest level spell on odd levels, but usually cover for that with something that upcasts well.

It is really the only way I know of to get heavy armor with a dip

 

[ECMO3]

Your also ignoring the sublass.
Getting 4 Ripost attacks per short is going to make up a lot of ground. Possibly even dealing more damage.

It makes up some of it, but I don't think that makes up 6.5 DPR per turn at level 3.

Are you assuming 17->18 Str ?

Yes. 17 STR on the dip, 18 on the single class. and it is 3.5 less for that one level, not 2.5 I made a math error.

What other feat are you assuming?
If it's PAM then you need to also add in reaction attacks.

Does it matter?

If you want it you would get PAM 1 level later, at 9th level instead of 8th level.

Also keep in mind you will get less damage with your action since PAM weapons do less damage on your action than their non-PAM counterparts and the bonus action PAM attack does less damage than the bonus action martial arts attack. So you are losing across the board on your turn and you are getting this bonus action attack at 8th level, while the multiclass is getting it at level 2.

 

[mellored]

In 5E full casters with a Cleric dip for heavy armor are pretty common IME.

It's a trade-off. Which is what it should be.

When you can point to a certain level and say straight class is better, and point to a different level and say multiclass is better, then you have pretty good balance.

 

[mellored]

It makes up some of it, but I don't think that makes up 6.5 DPR per turn at level 3.

2d6+1d8+3 = 14.5
/ 6.5 = 2.23 rounds to catch up per use
* 4 used = 8.9

So you need 9 rounds per short rest for multiclass to deal more damage.

Going to call that a win for straight fighter at level 3.

Yes. 17 STR on the dip, 18 on the single class. and it is 3.5 less for that one level, not 2.5 I made a math error.

And the accuracy boost.

Does it matter?

If your getting reaction attacks, that makes a big difference.

If you want it you would get PAM 1 level later

Multiclass is always 1 level later in something.

And often (not always) that something will be worth more than a 1d6+mod attack.

Depends on the level.

Could still turn out that monk 1 is ahead for more levels. But the question of if a single class is "viable" is clearly yes.

Also keep in mind you will get less damage with your action since PAM weapons do less damage.

Fair.

So subtract that, but add in some % of reaction attacks.

 

[ECMO3]

2d6+1d8+3 = 14.5
/ 6.5 = 2.23 rounds to catch up per use
* 4 used = 8.9

But you only can use it if/when you are missed.

If you assume you are missed 4 times between short rests then most of the time you are going to beat the multiclass I think, since most combats are less than 4.5 rounds. You do have something working against you here though: The more rounds you fight, the more misses are likely to happen .... but the more times that 6.5 adds up .....

It is not the only maneuver you have though, and the others eat into that 6.5 DPR too (albeit not as heavily), so you do make a good point and it is going to be ahead a lot if not most of the time, and behind some of the time.

If your getting reaction attacks, that makes a big difference.

I agreed with you on Battlemaster and level 3. I don't think you win here though, because you are taking a big hit on damage to do this. Your PAM reaction attack is 9.5 damage with a pole arm, but you are losing 4 DPR every turn on your turn compared to a greatsword+martial arts and you are not usually getting enough PAM reaction attacks to make that up. That is before you consider other things you could do with your reaction (like the aforementioned reposit)

 

[mellored]

But you only can use it if/when you are missed.

You need to be missed once every 2 turns to stay ahead. Seems like a reasonable assumption.

And yea. You could use a die on precision stike too. That would also count as an extra hit.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Going back to basics single classed martials are much stronger than in 2014. Also levels 3-5 are all very important (3=subclass, 4 = first feat and prime stat for a normal character up from 17 to 18, 5 = second attack). The case for multiclassing before 5 is hard.

After 5 things are very different. 8 is nowhere near as important as 5 with standard array or point buy (you're making a second choice that wasn't good enough last time and your prime stat is now probably even) and most subclass second subclass features are nowhere near as good as the first. Also barbarian and rogue in particular still barely scale to tier 3. Which is still a huge step up for the barbarian from barely scaling past level 5 on the base class.