D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[WanderingMystic]

So Monte Cook games has it so pc roll everything, when a monster attacks you you roll your defense to see if it hits. All you are doing is removing the +10 base AC for your party and having them roll a d20 and add it to their AC while your monsters just add 5-15 to their attack bonus depending on if they have disadvantage, advantage, or neither.

 

[Flamestrike]

On a Paladin I think you are going to always want 1 Warlock level.

It's a trap.

Show me a Warlock 1/ Paladin X at any level that matters (2nd to 6th), next to a Single classed Paladin, and I bet you the mono-class is miles in front.

On a Fighter you are going to want 1 Warlock level to let you attack with Charisma

Why?

or 1 Monk level to make bonus action unarmed strikes.

Delaying extra attack, subclass features, and locking yourself into Monk weapons, and no shield and no armor?

On a Monk you are going to want a level of Fighter or Ranger for Nick.

Delaying feats, extra attack, stunning Strike, deflect atacks and much much more?

Just take the Weapon Master feat at 4th level and call it a day.

That dip delays multiple potent class features (Stunning strike, extra attack, deflect attacks etc etc) by several sessions, each.

On a Ranger you are going to want 1 Monk level for bonus action unarmed strikes.

Delaying spellcasting, extra attack, subclass features etc and locking yourself into Monk weapons and no armor or shield?

Seriously mate, give me a level 3, 4 or 5 multiclass build next to a single classed Martial and I bet you the mono-class wins out by a considerable margin at every one of those levels.

 

[mellored]

It's a trap.

Show me a Warlock 1/ Paladin X at any level that matters (2nd to 6th), next to a Single classed Paladin, and I bet you the mono-class is miles in front.

The warlock dip works well for support. Pick up musician, protection style, inspiring leader, telekinetic, and Warcaster (booming blade) for 20 Cha. Along with Eldritch Blast as a ranged option. You will still want 15 Str for your AC, but it saves a little.

Alternatively, take magic initiative and grab Shillelagh with Cha. You lose musician, but gain a Paladin level.

If you're going for damage, and have 15 Str for armor, +Str from the weapon feats, then it's much harder to justify.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Seriously mate, give me a level 3, 4 or 5 multiclass build next to a single classed Martial and I bet you the mono-class wins out by a considerable margin at every one of those levels.

If you only consider Tier 1 as the "levels that matter" then yes you will rarely ever be better off multiclassing. That's a really narrow and specific window of levels to care about though.

All of the martial classes gain significant power per level up to at least 5, sometimes even up to 6-7. Past that though you're usually better off multiclassing, with 2014 rules or 2024 rules.

 

[Flamestrike]

The warlock dip works well for support. Pick up musician, protection style, inspiring leader, telekinetic, and Warcaster (booming blade) for 20 Cha.

No it doesnt, and you're using some 20th level 'build' that is likely never going to see the light of day (most games end in the mid levels at the highest, and often around 5th-6th).

Sir Mono-din
Vengeance Paladin 5
S 15(+2, +1) 18, D 8, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Charisma 15(+1) 16
Species: Wood Elf ASI: Great Weapon Master (+1 Str), Entertainer (Musician feat) background
Deity: Sheverash
AC 19 (Plate, defence). HP 44.

Features: Faithful steel, Extra attack, Channel divinity, Vow of Enmity, Fighting style (Defence), Paladins smite, Weapon mastery (Greatsword, javelins) Lay on hands, spellcasting (Slots 4/2)

Spells: Hunters Mark, Shield, Bane, Hold Person, Misty step, Find steed, Long strider, Pass without Trace, Druidcraft, Blade ward, Divine smite, 6 more.

Melee: Greatsword: 2 x attacks, +7, 2d6+7 (4 damage on a miss)

Has a a Fey Dire wolf 'Faithful steed' (Large Fey, AC 12, 25 Hp etc) that follows him around most of the time.

Bonus action Hunters Mark, then 2 x attacks (3d6+7) getting the odd third attack in from time to time with Cleave, or alternatively Divine smiting (at 2nd level).

Vow of enmity on anything it wants dead.

Pretty bog standard Paladin there.

Be shocked if any Lock 1/ Paladin 4 comes close at that level (or any of the 4 levels prior)

Next level (6th) the Multi catches up, but Mono then gets +3 to all saves.

Next level they're on par and remain as much for 8th level.

At 9th, 3rd level spells come online for the mono (including Haste and Revivify).

And so forth.

I've seen it done at my table, and the multiclass almost always finds themselves looking over enviously at the single classed PC.

 

[Chaltab]

This thread is mystifying to me. First of all, every class in 5e is viable 1 to 20; even weaker ones aren't useless like 1e thief or 3e fighter.

Second, multiclass dips for no other reason than optimization are a blight to 5E conversations. most players only multiclass if it makes sense for the character. I can count on one finger the number of times I've needed a multiclass dip to make a character in 5e.

 

[Flamestrike]

Second, multiclass dips for no other reason than optimization are a blight to 5E conversations.

Dont worry. They dont actually play well out on actual tables.

It's theorycrafters who dont actually play the tabletop game that advocate for them

I've lost track of the amount of times I've had to allow a player a 'do-over' of their PC becuase they tried a muliticlass that 'asbolutely rocks at high level' only to find out the pain of lagging behind the other other PCs by an entire level or two for the entire campaign leading up to that point.

Sorlocks in the past edition were a classic example.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

I can count on one finger the number of times I've needed a multiclass dip to make a character in 5e.

No one multiclasses because they need to for RP reasons, you do it because your character will objectively be more powerful that way.

 

[Flamestrike]

No one multiclasses because they need to for RP reasons, you do it because your character will objectively be more powerful that way.

Not 'power' necessarily. Another class might offer a feature that fits with the fantasy of the Character you're trying to create.

 

[Chaltab]

No one multiclasses because they need to for RP reasons, you do it because your character will objectively be more powerful that way.

In some cases, but in others it can weaken you. Still kind of besides the point that basing your class decisions with how to squeeze the most possible power into your build is not automagically make the game more fun. It may just give the DM a headache.

And it may make your character nonsensical. like if some one was an Oath of the Watchers Paladin then it makes zero sense for them to have a warlock pact to a fiend or GOO.