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D&D 5E was the giant book any good?

Are there any pen-and-paper RPGs that actually work this way, though?

D&D has never worked that way, so I'm not sure why you'd expect this book to change that. I do think it's a bit of a pity that giants are so giant yet so relatively ineffectual, but it's just how it's been. Even in videogames there have been precious few which have really leaned into the sort of design you're proposing, like Dragon's Dogma kind of does, Soulslike sometimes sorta-kinda do (not really though in most cases), but about 99% of JRPGs/ARPGs/CRPGs just don't.

I think if D&D had taken a more "size matters" approach back in the 1970s we'd have a very different combat system, especially as regards larger-than-human opponents.
aye, i dont mean to say its a dnd specific failing. More that it would be fun if encounters with monsters were more realistic and dangerous. no one is scared about fighting a couple hill giants if your over lvl3. Well, the 20 foot tall guys should be able to rip you in half as an action, regardless of their cr.
But dnd is generally about how you win, not where any one fight should tpk the party
 

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It was interesting, but it didn't do what I hoped. When a 30 foot tall giant hits you with a sword, you should go flying 50ft back, no save.
No, DnD should admit that you haven't really hit anything. HP and AC are an abstraction, the PC is not really getting hit. D&D tries to have it both ways, but it doesn't really work. It can still be fun though!
In fact, your should have alot of broken bones as a minimum. Giants should have a movement of like 400, not 30. Why can they only move as fast as a human? Adults can move faster than children. The entire "large is pitifully slow" is a wierd video game trope that doesn't have any basis in the animal world.
Not really, it is kinda physics and biomechanics. I mean we can do whatever we want, it is fantasy, but a 30 ft tall human would not even be able to walk let alone move 400 ft in 6 seconds. Now, for my fantasy game I do increase giants move rate (I have their base at 50 ft)
A conceit of dnd is that everything is built around human size, and anything large is just a little more powerful. For reference, the most dangerous animal for zookeepers is not a kodiak or tiger, its the elephant. They try to play with a human and accidentally squish and kill them. Elephants kill more zoo keepers than any other animal - purely on accident. Now imagine a 30 foot tall humanoid TRYING to kill you...
No the conceit of D&D is that you are not really hit and taking much physical damage when your HP goes down. Your really only hit hard when you get to 0 HP. Now we have to health tracks in our game so you can actually get hit, but that is for another time!
 

Are there any pen-and-paper RPGs that actually work this way, though?

D&D has never worked that way, so I'm not sure why you'd expect this book to change that. I do think it's a bit of a pity that giants are so giant yet so relatively ineffectual, but it's just how it's been. Even in videogames there have been precious few which have really leaned into the sort of design you're proposing, like Dragon's Dogma kind of does, Soulslike sometimes sorta-kinda do (not really though in most cases), but about 99% of JRPGs/ARPGs/CRPGs just don't.

I think if D&D had taken a more "size matters" approach back in the 1970s we'd have a very different combat system, especially as regards larger-than-human opponents.
Its less "expect" and more "hope". It's not that they don't do a good enough job with large creatures, its that they don't really even try to have it make sense, even if you assuredly ignore the square-cube law. I'd love it if more game designers didn't just leap off the diving board into "who cares about logic? Rule of Cool, suckers!" territory past a certain point.
 

No, DnD should admit that you haven't really hit anything. HP and AC are an abstraction, the PC is not really getting hit. D&D tries to have it both ways, but it doesn't really work. It can still be fun though!

Not really, it is kinda physics and biomechanics. I mean we can do whatever we want, it is fantasy, but a 30 ft tall human would not even be able to walk let alone move 400 ft in 6 seconds. Now, for my fantasy game I do increase giants move rate (I have their base at 50 ft)

No the conceit of D&D is that you are not really hit and taking much physical damage when your HP goes down. Your really only hit hard when you get to 0 HP. Now we have to health tracks in our game so you can actually get hit, but that is for another time!
Perhaps the books should be more clear about the, "a hit probably isn't a hit" thing. Changing the nomenclature would help.
 

Its less "expect" and more "hope". It's not that they don't do a good enough job with large creatures, its that they don't really even try to have it make sense, even if you assuredly ignore the square-cube law. I'd love it if more game designers didn't just leap off the diving board into "who cares about logic? Rule of Cool, suckers!" territory past a certain point.
I mean, to put my cards on the table, I've long-wanted a fantasy RPG that treated oversized creatures as more like the truly terrifying opponents they should be, requiring special tactics and weapons to defeat, but that RPG simply does not exist, AFAICT. I definitely don't expect D&D to go that way at this point, though I wouldn't have minded if they took a few lessons from Dragon's Dogma.
 

I mean, to put my cards on the table, I've long-wanted a fantasy RPG that treated oversized creatures as more like the truly terrifying opponents they should be, requiring special tactics and weapons to defeat, but that RPG simply does not exist, AFAICT. I definitely don't expect D&D to go that way at this point, though I wouldn't have minded if they took a few lessons from Dragon's Dogma.
A nod to what dealing with such things would actually be like, is all I ask.
 

It was interesting, but it didn't do what I hoped. When a 30 foot tall giant hits you with a sword, you should go flying 50ft back, no save. In fact, your should have alot of broken bones as a minimum. Giants should have a movement of like 400, not 30. Why can they only move as fast as a human? Adults can move faster than children. The entire "large is pitifully slow" is a wierd video game trope that doesn't have any basis in the animal world.

You can't selectively ignore some of the laws of physics (that 30 foot tall giants can actually exist and function) and then complain that other laws of physics are also selectively ignored. If you're dead set on physical laws actually working exactly the same as real life, then you'll just have to get rid of giants (and, presumably, other things like magic) altogether...
 

Perhaps the books should be more clear about the, "a hit probably isn't a hit" thing. Changing the nomenclature would help.
I don't disagree. We see critical hits and if you are at 0 HP as the only true significant hits in our 5e. We also have bloodied HP for when you do actually strike your target significantly. We haven't changed it in our games yet, but at planning to use PF2 criticals for our next campaign for this reason.
 

You can't selectively ignore some of the laws of physics (that 30 foot tall giants can actually exist and function) and then complain that other laws of physics are also selectively ignored. If you're dead set on physical laws actually working exactly the same as real life, then you'll just have to get rid of giants (and, presumably, other things like magic) altogether...
I'm pretty sure you can, actually. Some adherence to reality is better than none.
 

A nod to what dealing with such things would actually be like, is all I ask.
What I was thinking was D&D could have some rules, really simple ones, where, if you were actually able to climb or hang-on-to a larger creature, or otherwise attack something more vulnerable than its feet (flying, using ranged weapons, etc.), you should probably do extra damage (whilst potentially being hard to attack yourself) - or maybe it should resist damage unless you do, whatever feels best gameplay-wise. And like, some weapons - big ones - should be "anti-large" and do like, double-base-weapon-dice against size L or above creatures (or maybe size H and above), which 1E/2E sorta kinda sorta did but not in a very well-conceived way.

Very much these rules would need to KISS but like, I think it would have been doable at the start of 5E.
 

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