D&D (2024) Heroes of the Borderlands

[mamba]

Just because you do not UNDERSTAND the forces of Chaos and how it could be perceived, does not mean there was no reason.

Are you trying to toss a personal insult or slander at someone??

The original makers of D&D? The original writers of the Module??

I actually agree, with MODERN DAY understandings and HOW MODERN DAY players play the game, there are too many instances where such things may be a bad idea to include...you are trying to apply MODERN DAY GAME PLAY to things that were written before that playstyle was even regularly used

eh, I already found that setup nonsensical in the 80s

I like your ‘forces of chaos’ approach, but even that does not really explain it as there are different factions that are at odds with each other, not one united force made up of different races, and their food supply is unsolved even if they were just one large group - unless things that go bump in the night have no need for such things

 

[Paul Farquhar]

eh, I already found that setup nonsensical in the 80s

Likewise. I haven’t read the thing since 1982, but I vividly remember how nonsensical the caves were. That’s not “modern”, that’s just how it was.

I don’t remember the keep or wilderness so much, presumably because they were not do obviously silly.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Likewise. I haven’t read the thing since 1982, but I vividly remember how nonsensical the caves were. That’s not “modern”, that’s just how it was.

It was one of the first time I wondered "where are the toilets?"

I don’t remember the keep or wilderness so much, presumably because they were not do obviously silly.

As far as i remember there are like 3 other area and the rest is wandering encounter tables.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It was one of the first time I wondered "where are the toilets?

In the corner of the room you find a large earth filled box.

“Damn, we’ve blundered into the tabaxi cave. I make a perception check on top of the door.”

 

[KYRON45]

It’s quite disturbing that you believe there are groups it won’t be a big problem for.

I've played with people that would try and keep the goblin children and raise them as their own marauding warband.
Any DM worth their salt would know how their group would react to such a thing and make adjustments accordingly. Who minds the children, mothers...servants...some other enslaved creature? Open the gate and tell them that they are on their own, just don't go near town or the next party might not be so nice.

As for new DMs....i agree the situation should never be presented. The problem there is that any one from a really smart 7 year old to a really dumb 80 year old is the target audience. So you have no idea what's going to happen.

Then you have your simulationists who are going to say that it makes perfect sense for there to be kids where adults live. I would argue that the goblins don't live in the keep but are at work so there really is no reason for their children to be there.

The best part of D&D or any RPG really is that its your story and there are endless possibilities.

 

[SteveC]

Thorny moral issues are not a big problem for every group. Some people like an opportunity to wrestle with difficult questions, and being interested in exploring that is not disturbing, and I resent the implication.

It seems like I'm posting stories recently, so here's one more. We played Caves with the 25th-anniversary edition. I remember that I was playing a Paladin. When we got to the room with non-combatants, the DM was fully expecting me to slaughter them and told me full-on that this was a Paladin thing to do. I would have none of it. I said, "If this is something that my god wants to remove my powers over, I don't want them."

We had a real change of focus for the game after that that the DM didn't expect and didn't really want to deal with, truth be told. We returned everyone to the keep and arranged to have schools setup for the kids. I know the DM was expecting a dungeon crawl, we created a school, orphanage, and businesses to give everyone something to do and be a part of society.

I don't believe that the designers expected this, and new players would not be comfortable with it in 2024.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Any DM worth their salt would know how their group would react to such a thing and make adjustments accordingly

An experienced DM would have realised it didn’t make sense for there to be children there in the first place and removed them, but this is a product aimed at newbie DMs (as was the original).

 

[Scribe]

An experienced DM would have realised it didn’t make sense for there to be children there in the first place and removed them, but this is a product aimed at newbie DMs (as was the original).

If the original is somehow (while being beloved and referenced often) flawed and unacceptable for any number of reasons, why isnt Wizards just moving on and making something new?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If the original is somehow (while being beloved and referenced often) flawed and unacceptable for any number of reasons, why isnt Wizards just moving on and making something new?

It’s pretty easy to fix with a new cave map, and it has lots of nostalgia value and an archetypal scenario. Seems better than letting it rot to me.

 

[KYRON45]

An experienced DM would have realised it didn’t make sense for there to be children there in the first place and removed them, but this is a product aimed at newbie DMs (as was the original).

Which was addressed in the part of the post you didn’t include in the quote.