D&D (2024) DMs what do you think of the new PHB?

[Zardnaar]

That was my 2nd last purchase from WotC, with Descent into Avernus being my last.
I have also supported a fair amount of 3pp material.
While still running a 5e campaign (est. around 2 years left) I'm also designing and playtesting my own RPG engine.

Not D&D?

I've got my D&D to the point of being able to pkaytest it.
Times more of an issue and been sidetracked with potentially 3 campaigns.

 

[pemerton]

Well apparently 5E is everyone's 2nd favorite edition but WotC should support everyone's least favorite edition.

Going by the numbers it's everyone's favorite edition bigger tgan 2 B/X boxed sets and 1E combined and 10 tiims the size of everyone's least favorite edition.

I've been hearing about how terrible D&D is since the 90s from fans of vampires and everyone's least favorite edition.

I have zero interest in 5e D&D (except from the point of view of keeping a general sense of where the mainstream of the hobby is at).

My favourite edition of D&D is 4e, and my second favourite is probably AD&D (for nostalgia reasons) even though Moldvay Basic is objectively a better version.

When WotC was publishing 4e D&D, I had posters on this thread calling me a WotC kiss-*** and the like. They seemed to confuse my enjoyment of a RPG with some sort of relationship to the company.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Not D&D?

Personally, I'd call it D&D, but the engine and many other things have been completely altered.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean that's HOW you keep the game alive, introducing new players and a complicated, poorly thought out lay out where you can't find anything is a huge barrier to success. IF you don't cater to new players you die on the vine.

But the book is for all players, old and new, so it can't realistically be considered a general success if we only talk about how great it is for part of the player base it.

I didn't say it's a horrible thing. I just find it odd. I mean, why would WotC possibly change their general publishing approach to D&D, when they're making more money from it than they ever have in the past?

And if the RPGs you actually want to play exist, then why do you care what one commercial publisher will publish in some imagined future?

Because he wants to play in a game he enjoys (understandable), but instead everyone seems to be running games he doesn't enjoy, because the vast majority of folks run the latest official D&D, and he doesn't want to play it. The RPGs he likes exist, but not the actual games in his experience.

 

[mamba]

But the book is for all players, old and new, so it can't realistically be considered a general success if we only talk about how great it is for part of the player base it.

as long as the book being better for new players is not detrimental to existing players I see no issue here. If you could manage with the 2014 books, the 2024 books will be just fine as well.

The question then is do you like the changes they made / direction they are taking D&D in. I do not see most people having issues with this.

That usability gets mentioned a lot is because that is its biggest step forward, the game has not changed all that much.

Because he wants to play in a game he enjoys (understandable), but instead everyone seems to be running games he doesn't enjoy, because the vast majority of folks run the latest official D&D, and he doesn't want to play it. The RPGs he likes exist, but not the actual games in his experience.

understandable, but not really something WotC needs to address or even should address

 

[pemerton]

Because he wants to play in a game he enjoys (understandable), but instead everyone seems to be running games he doesn't enjoy, because the vast majority of folks run the latest official D&D, and he doesn't want to play it. The RPGs he likes exist, but not the actual games in his experience.

This seems like it's getting angry at "everyone" for wanting something different. Which is just bizarre. No one has a duty to share my tastes, or anyone else's.

But the more bizarre bit, it seems to me, is the inability to find these other games. On another forum I'm in regular discussion with someone who seems to be running multiple Stonetop games, with participants recruited on reddit (I think it is). And other people I talk to are playing or GMing Stonetop, DW, various FitD games, and one is prepping to run the Colonial Marines (= Alien(s)) variant of Torchbearer. I just don't accept this proposition that it's not possible to find a game other than 5e D&D.

 

[AnotherGuy]

But the book is for all players, old and new, so it can't realistically be considered a general success if we only talk about how great it is for part of the player base it.

Given how the player base is so vast and varied now covering a number of generations, the only way to truly incorporate other playstyles would be to have ways to dial things up or down, or inject or remove parts.

I think the only time one actually leaves it entirely behind is if one has a fundamental issue with the core engine (d20), the way the narrative is generated or if there are parts which are missing from the game that cannot easily be included. For D&D, an example of the latter would be like a mechanised personality system.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Given how the player base is so vast and varied now covering a number of generations, the only way to truly incorporate other playstyles would be to have ways to dial things up or down, or inject or remove parts.

I think the only time one actually leaves it entirely behind is if one has a fundamental issue with the core engine (d20), the way the narrative is generated or if there are parts which are missing from the game that cannot easily be included. For D&D, an example of the latter would be like a mechanised personality system.

I agree. My objection, however, was to the idea that, "It's great for new players, so that means it's a great book, even if new players aren't the only ones using it".

 

[DEFCON 1]

You're in an internet forum for a game that you don't like, posting about how much you dislike it and wish people would stop playing it. Then you want sympathy from people who just want a place to talk about the game they enjoy without every discussion turning into threadcrapping?

That's not a horrible thing, it's your free time to spend doing whatever makes you happy - just don't expect anyone to side with you unless they're one of the other people who hate 5e as well yet continuously post about it for some reason.

Yep, I'm constantly amazed at the people who will rail against WotC and the D&D 5E game all the time but then get so upset when other people show up to tell them why they think their anger is misplaced. It's like they think they should be allowed to complain freely with no response back. But as you point out... that's not how an internet forum works, especially not one designed to be for the thing being railed against.

If someone wants to complain about D&D 5E without anyone telling them why they are wrong, there are countless places they can go to do so. They could even create their very own "I hate 5E!" internet forum or discord server or Reddit page so that all other people who feel the same way could all post their complaints together. But many people don't do that. Why? I think it's because they know they won't change anyone's minds if they shunt themselves off into a different part of the internet, which defeats the purpose of complaining. If they have any hopes in the things they don't like eventually getting changed in the game to something they do... they need a lot more of the rest of us to go along with them. So they need to hang out and post around here in hopes their complaints will have an eventual effect. And I understand that desire.

I mean I do the same thing but for a different topic... constantly posting here about how people would be a lot happier with D&D and all roleplaying games if they'd stop thinking about them as board games with a couple narrative improv elements but instead as a group improv performance with choices made by random chance rather than the players themselves making all the decisions. But I know that is a mostly futile gesture, while at the same time I don't get mad when people respond back telling me that they think the board game of D&D is in fact the more important facet of the two.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yep, I'm constantly amazed at the people who will rail against WotC and the D&D 5E game all the time but then get so upset when other people show up to tell them why they think their anger is misplaced. It's like they think they should be allowed to complain freely with no response back. But as you point out... that's not how an internet forum works, especially not one designed to be for the thing being railed against.

If someone wants to complain about D&D 5E without anyone telling them why they are wrong, there are countless places they can go to do so. They could even create their very own "I hate 5E!" internet forum or discord server or Reddit page so that all other people who feel the same way could all post their complaints together. But many people don't do that. Why? I think it's because they know they won't change anyone's minds if they shunt themselves off into a different part of the internet, which defeats the purpose of complaining. If they have any hopes in the things they don't like eventually getting changed in the game to something they do... they need a lot more of the rest of us to go along with them. So they need to hang out and post around here in hopes their complaints will have an eventual effect. And I understand that desire.

I mean I do the same thing but for a different topic... constantly posting here about how people would be a lot happier with D&D and all roleplaying games if they'd stop thinking about them as board games with a couple narrative improv elements but instead as a group improv performance with choices made by random chance rather than the players themselves making all the decisions. But I know that is a mostly futile gesture, while at the same time I don't get mad when people respond back telling me that they think the board game of D&D is in fact the more important facet of the two.

Fair enough. I have no problem with people objecting to my objections so long as they're respectful (although I admittedly have issues with folks presenting opinion as fact).

Mostly I just want more people to support and play Level Up.