D&D 5E Bravely running away

[GMMichael]

From another thread, the topic of retreat has come up, it sounds like it might be difficult for a couple of reasons:

1. The Cyclical nature of initiative makes it difficult for the party to retreat (Ol' Tim the Timid can still run off on his own though).
2. Movement speeds are largely the same between PCs and NPCs/Monsters, if you run away by dashing, the enemy can mostly keep up.

1) Not even professional football teams can get the whole defense to immediately focus on the ball carrier (or simultaneously run away). Until, let's say, six seconds go by and a bit of communication happens.

2) This is a reward for those who didn't wear heavy armor, no? It's not that hard for the DM to say, "since you're both dashing at speeds of 30, let's get some athletics checks to see who makes more progress."

The combination of going to pick up fallen partymember, disengaging, and somehow getting away from enemies (who are all also moving 30ft+) is kind of impossible.

But, talk about some interesting character development! "Regdar, to this day, won't fight kobolds, due to the trauma from leaving Mialee behind that day."

 

[Distracted DM]

If you want to keep retreat as a practical option, I'd recommend 13th Age's Flee rules. The DMG chase rules seem like they'd end up with the fleeing party getting almost immediately caught :'(

Fleeing is a party action. On any PC’s turn, any player can propose that all the characters flee the fight. If the players agree they successfully retreat, carrying any fallen PCs away with them. The party suffers a campaign loss- this can mean that the sacrificial victim gets sacrificed, characters lose valuable items, or otherwise valuable time or goals are lost.
The point of this rule is to make retreating interesting on a story level, rather than a tactical choice that rarely succeeds.

 

[James Gasik]

Another problem with fleeing is- where are you going to flee to? In most scenarios, you could easily blunder into another encounter, patrol, or random encounter!

If you're in a dungeon, you're not going to be able to flee all the way to the exit (most likely), so your only option is an area that you've fully cleared that managed to stay that way in your absence. Worse, you're probably in bad shape, with party members out of spells, limited healing options, and in dire need of a rest- something that's already difficult to do in the field!

Simply put, either the DM has to go out of his way to make retreat possible and telegraph that to the players (which might require some metagaming or even immersion breaking: "uh, why, exactly, are the orc berserkers just letting us go?") or the players need to have scrolls or dedicated spell slots devoted to "run away" spells (and it pretty much has to be spells in 5e, because non-casters can't fill an area with fog, smoke, difficult terrain, or other control effects to deter someone from chasing the party) at all times.

AND if the party is subject to a "time crunch", ie, the kind of thing that forces them to face X encounters before resting, depending on how high the stakes are, the consequences of failure might not be any better than dying!

I'll illustrate that last bit with a story. 4e game, we were up against some crazy cultists and we encountered their leader, who seemed to possess vampiric powers. Pretty quickly we realized we were outclassed, as he could negate one attack per turn outright and had an ability that let him dominate a party member, which he used on our Sorcerer.

The intent was for us to retreat and this guy become a recurring foe for the game. But the DM tipped his hand when the guy cursed me in combat.

As he explained, for a year and a day, the villain could scry on my location no matter where I went, and could target me or anyone near me with his abilities- basically meaning that not only could he destroy me or anyone else he cursed at his leisure, but that we would now be a threat to anyone we came into contact with!

With that threat looming over our heads, flight seemed extremely pointless. The party died to a man, and the campaign ended, with the DM unable to comprehend where he went wrong, lol.

 

[Clint_L]

That is a good way to prevent combat and have the players consider other options, but if the party is already in combat, how do you allow for them to retreat?

There are usually plenty of ways for clever players to pull off a retreat; I find it curious that you state that "the 5e game mechanics don't enable running away against enemies who are motivated to follow." Could be a spell, misdirection, creating an obstacle or diversion, simply outrunning the foe. And if I am setting up a situation where they are likely overmatched, I will also set it up to make either retreat or evening up the odds possible.

In our last game, the BBEG successfully pulled off a retreat using a simple fog spell. In a recent home game, we retreated by having my monk charge deep behind enemy lines to feint at the leader, drawing most of the foes back while the rest of the party took off, and then she ran up a cliffside to rejoin them later. Once the party is out of melee range they have an advantage over the pursuers; all they have to do is set the simplest of traps around the next corner (flask of burning oil, for example) and suddenly the pursuit gets cautious and slows right down.

 

[Lanefan]

So, to other DMs, if in the middle of combat players decide they should retreat, how would you run it?

No set answer, as every situation is different.

In general, though, it's unlikely they'll all get away but extremely likely that at least one will. And one is all it takes to keep the game going.

 

[Lanefan]

Players often only consider retreat when something has already gone wrong - likely someone's gone down. The combination of going to pick up fallen partymember, disengaging, and somehow getting away from enemies (who are all also moving 30ft+) is kind of impossible.

There basically needs to be an established houserule: 'at any time, you can declare retreat, and we will handle it narratively as a group', because otherwise there's no reason for the players to even try, knowing it's a futile effort.

If you're fleeing and things are that bad, you're trying to save your own lives first and foremost. Stopping to pick up or drag the fallen will get you killed. Leave them.

 

[S'mon]

From another thread, the topic of retreat has come up, it sounds like it might be difficult for a couple of reasons:

1. The Cyclical nature of initiative makes it difficult for the party to retreat (Ol' Tim the Timid can still run off on his own though).
2. Movement speeds are largely the same between PCs and NPCs/Monsters, if you run away by dashing, the enemy can mostly keep up.

The only time I can recall players retreating in my game was during a session which was played more narratively rather than with the actual rules, so it doesn't really count (it was a hit and run on an opposing army's baggage train). They did also manage to escape engaging in a combat using a skill challenge, which again doesn't count, and perhaps that's what I'd switch to once the players discuss that they want to retreat, but it'd be interesting to hear what others would do.

So, to other DMs, if in the middle of combat players decide they should retreat, how would you run it?

I encourage players to keep retreat in mind as an option. The combat movement rules only work as a representation of reality and I don't use them when PCs are "off grid".

 

[S'mon]

In my experience both PCs and monsters flee from losing battles, and at least some members of the losing side usually escape. Long term pursuits are fairly rare. I still remember an early 4e game where the PCs chased down and killed a fleeing hobgoblin leader they really hated.
I've never really had a problem with retreats in my games. Obviously the losing side are likely to lose some members and if they prefer to TPK, that's fine. Most PC groups will go "Marines, we are LEAVING!" when it's hopeless.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Best way to handle it, IMO, is first to bring up during a session 0 that 1) you CAN flee, and that 2) there is no guarantee that every monster the PCs face will be reasonably possible to defeat. And then, to drive the point home, actually introduce and clearly TELEGRAPH through descriptive language a threat that the PCs SHOULD run from in one of the first few sessions. I've used different means of handling retreat including both in and out of combat turns; but I think I have a slight preference for shifting to narrative chase scenes after the PCs have made a general consensus to run away during or between normal turn order.

Something to keep in mind: There are a wide number of predatory strategies in the real world. Many creatures can sprint or pounce very quickly, but do not have the stamina to maintain those speeds very long at all. There is no reason that I can think of not to extend this logic to a fantasy game world. So maybe base combat movement speeds aren't always the ultimate determinants for whether someone can actually run away or not. Within some reason.

 

[Distracted DM]

In my experience both PCs and monsters flee from losing battles, and at least some members of the losing side usually escape. Long term pursuits are fairly rare. I still remember an early 4e game where the PCs chased down and killed a fleeing hobgoblin leader they really hated.
I've never really had a problem with retreats in my games. Obviously the losing side are likely to lose some members and if they prefer to TPK, that's fine. Most PC groups will go "Marines, we are LEAVING!" when it's hopeless.

How do your players flee from attackers? What rules do you use?

Usually the issue is that players don't realize that things are dire until a couple party members have dropped- and then they don't want to abandon their party members. So they'll hang out and... Lose.