Spoilers Rings of Power is back!

[Paul Farquhar]

The idea that power is ultimately a trap, and the true path lies through humility and service is a major theme in Tolkien’s writings. A very Christian ideal.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

A critic knows the destination but can’t drive the car. I’ll take seriously adjectives like ‘junk’ or ‘steaming pile of garbage’ from folks with some demonstrable capability in the area of screenwriting, producing or directing TV or film.

I guess it's lucky that I'm not a critic, but just some random bloke on the internet with an opinion. You should feel comfortable using whatever adjectives you like; it won't inform whether I take you seriously or not.

But suggesting that in order to have a valid opinion about an art form, one needs to have some kind of credentialed industry history strikes me as very odd. I have opinions about Rick Astley, yet I've never produced a record.

I'd agree that effective screenwriting, producing and directing of a sprawling TV show requires a robust skill set.

The problem with Payne and McKay, of course, is that they had no demonstrated capability in this field prior to being given a billion-dollar IP. And to me - not a critic, but just some random bloke on the internet - it is painfully apparent.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I guess it's lucky that I'm not a critic, but just some random bloke on the internet with an opinion. You should feel comfortable using whatever adjectives you like; it won't inform whether I take you seriously or not.

But suggesting that in order to have a valid opinion about an art form, one needs to have some kind of credentialed industry history strikes me as very odd. I have opinions about Rick Astley, yet I've never produced a record.

I'd agree that effective screenwriting, producing and directing of a sprawling TV show requires a robust skill set.

The problem with Payne and McKay, of course, is that they had no demonstrated capability in this field prior to being given a billion-dollar IP. And to me - not a critic, but just some random bloke on the internet - it is painfully apparent.

Don't worry. I suspect that if your critique were more positive this qualification issue would never have come up.

 

[TheSword]

Don't worry. I suspect that if your critique were more positive this qualification issue would never have come up.

Didn't have to be positive. Just not overwhelmingly and hyperbolically derogatory.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Didn't have to be positive. Just not overwhelmingly and hyperbolically derogatory.

Would you have said the same if it was equally overwhelmingly and hyperbolically praising?

 

[ART!]

I think this is the crux of why the show struggles to maintain an audience. They're just doing so much that there's hardly anyone who likes all of what they're showing - whether it's the characters, the storylines or the lore.

If they'd just gone for less of a sweeping, all-inclusive approach and concentrated upon just one or two of the stories they're simultaneously telling, they could have told a more coherent narrative, and built an audience that tuned in for all of it rather than spending a portion of each episode waiting through for whatever, for them, is the next 'good bit'.

It would be interesting to compare the number of storylines in RoP with those in GoT, and how the two shows approach balancing them. I can't think of any other shows that have so many characters so far apart and with such (relatively) disconnected storylines.

 

[Maxperson]

I’m aware of Galadriels ‘Power’. You’re completely missing the point that just because Galadriel is more powerful (whatever that means in real terms) does not mean she would excise that power to force her own way.

I mean, other than when she forced her own way against Feanor(the only elf to rival her in power) the high king of the elves and refused to take the oath or join the kinslaying. Or that time she forced her own way against the Valar and left Aman to go after Feanor. Or that time she forced her own way and told off the Valar who refused to let her return to Aman. Or that time she forced her own way by refusing(three times) to give Feanor a lock of her hair when he wanted it. Or that time that she forced her own way in the second age, leaving Gil-Galad(who she basically made king) and established her own dominion.

Then there's also her pride, which was noted time and time and time again. There's no way in hell that she would have left middle earth, even if she could(but she couldn't), at the order of the king.

Seeing how Galadriel does sail into the west eventually - clearly the injunction isn’t as clear as you are making it out to be.

What is clear is that from your comment about Numenoreans being superstitious, Numenoreans declining civilization, and Galadriel's exile being unclear, is that you either haven't read the books or have forgotten a whole lot.

Galadriel's ban was lifted by the Valar AFTER her acts during Lord of the Rings. It was firmly, and very, very clearly, in place when the order to return was given. She could not have obeyed, even if she wanted to.

As for the Numenoreans, the show is clearly depicting the decline of that civilization. A decline and cynicism typified by Ar Pharazon. The Numenoreans are described at one point as only following custom out of fear of the valar… a giant eagle landed on the windowsill and a sea beast chose the rightful queen. This seems to fit the bill very neatly.

The decline was purely moral. Their majesty and technology did not decline at all. Depicting them as petty, normal men is wrong and against everything that the Numenoreans were.

There are plausible explanations and work arounds but you’re never going to reach those if you’re searching for things to be pissed off about.

No there aren't plausible explanations(If you know the lore well). There are only weak justifications(at least those the show has given) that fail the plausibility test.

 

[Maxperson]

Would you have said the same if it was equally overwhelmingly and hyperbolically praising?

Or dismissed it, since he has no professional screenwriting experience. If our criticisms get dismissed because we are not experts in the field, our praises also have to be dismissed.

 

[Zardnaar]

It would be interesting to compare the number of storylines in RoP with those in GoT, and how the two shows approach balancing them. I can't think of any other shows that have so many characters so far apart and with such (relatively) disconnected storylines.

I'm currently rewatching GoT last nights final episode was S5E8 Hardhome. One of the "weak" seasons. Unfair perhaps because good GoT blows most other fantasy shows away. Then it falls apart.

Key difference between GoT and RoP is connective tissues and good characters. All the storyline in RoP are barely connected they're just happening on different stages.

GoT is doing a way better job of connecting things togather. The characters move around. What Is happening in Essos gets referenced in Kings Landing. The foreshadowing and connection is executed a lot better.

And in S1 you basically have great character almost from the pilot. Book 1 was written like a TV show though due to GRRMs background.

I wouldn't call RoP a flaming trash pile either. I probably wouldn't use those terms if I did it would be for S8 GoT or Rise of Skywalker where the story basically falls apart.

A fairer comparison I would argue would be comparing it to Halo or Foundation. Those 3 shows all have similar problems imho.

I'm not a hard core purists of anything but if you're going to deviate in source material you had better make it good. Eg Jackson's LotR movies or S1-4 of GoT. If it's still fun people will overlook discrepancies if they're even aware of them. Otherwise you look like a hack mimicing someone else who's a better writer than you.

Proof is in the pudding.

 

[Eric V]

Would you have said the same if it was equally overwhelmingly and hyperbolically praising?

I don't know about @TheSword , but for me, yes, absolutely. Hyperbole is good for comedy and little else.