D&D (2024) 2024 Player’s Handbook is ‘Fastest Selling D&D Book Ever’

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It’s only officially been out for a week, but according to Wizards of the Coast, the new Dungeons & Dragons Player’s Handbook has already surpassed Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything to become the fastest selling D&D book ever—in the entire 50-year history of the game. It has sold three times as many copies as the 2014 version of the books did at launch.

Not only that, the 2024 Player’s Handbook was the biggest print run in D&D’s history.

In a press release today, WotC claims more than 85 million D&D fans worldwide, and says that D&D Beyond, the game’s official online platform, has over 18 million users.

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Lots of ways to monetize it, some that people haven't even imagined yet.

If I can make just $10 off of each 85 million member fan, or average that (you know, some are whales, some are microbes)...that's 850 Million right there. Who isn't willing to spend $10 on their favorite game (I mean, just the PHB itself will probably set you back more than that!).

If I can make an average of $20...that's even better. If I can wrangle half of them (42.5 million) into a $5 a month subscription...That's not much...is it?

Lots of ways to nickle and dime where people may not even realize it. And that's not even doing something as drastic as trying to force everyone on Beyond onto the 2024 rules, or trying to redo the OGL so that WotC can make more money off of third parties!
Actually, I find it quite believable that on average D&D fans spend ~$2 per year on WotC product: it's different from Magic.
 

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You can't. 'Fan' and 'customer' are different words. And the fans are of 'D&D' not the TTRPG. You confused them before, and you're confusing them again.

You can't.

You can't.

Because you've returned to this narrative more than once--85M D&D fans are not 85M TTRPG D&D players, and certainly not 85M customers. They are people who have interacted with the brand, and that includes movies, colouring books, plushies, novels, all sorts of things.

These flights-of-fancy conjectural mathematical trains of thought you keep posting are, I'm afraid, not credible. They're based on an incorrect premise.

You are thinking like someone who is a player...not the board members. Consoles are a prime example....though no one made the connection previously.

Xbox sold somewhere around 60 million xbox ones. Now, a LOT of those are actually not used. In fact, over half of them are probably not used on a daily basis, and some...not even on a weekly basis. In fact, most xbox owners play less than 200 hours on their console each year.

How many people have owned an xbox over the years...probably MORE than 60 million...but 60 million is a convenient number to utilize in the example.

So, how does Xbox make money?

They sell games...right? (sort of like how D&D sells supplements). Of course, no game is going to sell as well as the base Xbox. Less then 1/10th of xbox console owners buy any one game, in fact, most xbox games released get even 5% of the xbox console base to buy them (in which case, we may say that D&D might have a better attach rate for PHB's to supplements than Xbox does for most of the games released for it).

So...where does the money come from?

The Xbox division made 15 billion last year according to some numbers reported. Let's take just 1/10th of that...and that would be impressive for D&D.

One reason to recruit Microsoft execs to WotC is because they are very good at monetizing the brand in some ways. Some of the things being done may be able to be seen as direct parallels.

One way Xbox and Microsoft have expanded is by expanding access to those beyond just the xbox audience. Another way is via subscription with game pass.

You think Xbox is only concerned with those who OWN the current Xbox series X or S that is on sale?

No, they are looking far beyond that.

If one is counted as a fan, a player or whatever, that's a number that can be exploited. A business owner may be interested in what is the current customer base.

An investor that wants to exploit something, looks at what CAN be...rather than what is. Whether it is 85 million fans, or 85 million players...those are BIG numbers, and even if someone is merely a fan...there is surely a way to exploit that.

The OGL situation that arose awhile back didn't come about simply because they were looking at who the people who bought the PHB were...in fact...the players weren't even really what they were looking at in that situation. They were looking at other numbers...the extended base as one would put it. That extended base of fans, users, or simply those who were aware of it is far larger and far more tempting to get money from than simply those who are currently going to their FLGS or other smaller numbers.
 

D&D is a hobby. There are a few whales out there and I'm sure WotC would like to get their cash instead of it going to DwarvenForge or Fantasy Grounds. They wouldn't mind more licensing agreements with companies like WizKids. Obviously they'd love another BG 3.

But there's no way to them to "trick" me into buying more stuff. They can only sell so many books profitably and from all indications they learned their lessons from 3.x and 4E. If they make a brilliant VTT that people want to use? Good for them! But I won't buy it because I don't need it. They can't force anyone to use their new VTT, or DDB or anything else. People can buy one set of books for the group (if that) and play for years. If they stop publishing the core rule books they'll just lose customers. In the meantime, just based on physical production values, the PHB is an amazing deal for the price.

I had more but Morrus beat me to the punch. The fears are overblown.

How about VALUE though. Every week or month a new monster or item is added for FREE to anyone who has a subscription to the a pass or something. The pass costs you....let's say...$1 a month.

Or, how about, we start a small section of fan films and fan fiction that can be uploaded directly to a gameservice (sort of like DMsguild, but a different subscription service). It's all fan made and authorized. To access without ads you can pay a subscription fee of...let's say...$1 a month as well.

It's all about the framing and how you put it. As I said, I have no idea HOW they may do it, but I know there are some out there right now that are trying to formulate things to put before the board to try to push something to monetize D&D far more than it has been.
 

You are thinking like someone who is a player...
I am thinking as somebody who is a game publisher and a TTRPG journalist for 25 years.

And, I repeat, you are wrong because you won't drop the fallacy that 85M D&D fans are 85M D&D players. And until you get past that hurdle, you will continue to be wrong no matter how many times you repeat it.

I don't expect to change your mind. This post is for the benefit of others reading.
 

I am thinking as somebody who is a game publisher and a TTRPG journalist for 25 years.

And, I repeat, you are wrong because you won't drop the fallacy that 85M D&D fans are 85M D&D players. And until you get past that hurdle, you will continue to be wrong.

I may be, but you are still not thinking as an investor. I KNOW you have been a game publisher and TTRPG journalist for 25 years, so I am sort of surprised you haven't SEEN what I am talking about.

Xbox Gamepass is out there BECAISE of this idea of expanding the service and subscriptions. Xbox itself has various ways it's trying to expand beyond those who own Xboxes (because appealing only to those that own a current xbox, that's currently a losing battle to PS) to other platforms and to appeal to those who are merely "fans".

THIS is the current lingo that you would use. This is not just a "D&D" thing, or an "RPG" thing, this is what the market is currently about. You expand or you die. If there are fans out there that are not being utilized...then you haven't even been able to get beyond the fanbase (and getting beyond that is crucial to expanding) and that is seen by some as a failure. Of course...they are going to try to exploit the fans for money.

It's not just the players.

I think that's what you are not seeing. You think it's just about those currently playing. It's FAR beyond that. You think the OGL ideas were focused simply to try to get more money from those currently playing only D&D???

No, it was FAR beyond those playing D&D, or even D&D related fans. It was about anything and anyone related to D&D (even those who hated D&D but were using things connected to it). It's THAT thinking, how to get money from every facet that can be utilized that is going through their heads. That's why that 85 million number is important and stands out.

I personally think some VP is trying to get promoted with stating numbers like that, but that number is going to most likely cause problems that many here won't see until it probably come to a head in a year or two.
 

You are thinking like someone who is a player...not the board members. Consoles are a prime example....though no one made the connection previously.

Xbox sold somewhere around 60 million xbox ones. Now, a LOT of those are actually not used. In fact, over half of them are probably not used on a daily basis, and some...not even on a weekly basis. In fact, most xbox owners play less than 200 hours on their console each year.

How many people have owned an xbox over the years...probably MORE than 60 million...but 60 million is a convenient number to utilize in the example.

So, how does Xbox make money?

They sell games...right? (sort of like how D&D sells supplements). Of course, no game is going to sell as well as the base Xbox. Less then 1/10th of xbox console owners buy any one game, in fact, most xbox games released get even 5% of the xbox console base to buy them (in which case, we may say that D&D might have a better attach rate for PHB's to supplements than Xbox does for most of the games released for it).

So...where does the money come from?

The Xbox division made 15 billion last year according to some numbers reported. Let's take just 1/10th of that...and that would be impressive for D&D.

One reason to recruit Microsoft execs to WotC is because they are very good at monetizing the brand in some ways. Some of the things being done may be able to be seen as direct parallels.

One way Xbox and Microsoft have expanded is by expanding access to those beyond just the xbox audience. Another way is via subscription with game pass.

You think Xbox is only concerned with those who OWN the current Xbox series X or S that is on sale?

No, they are looking far beyond that.

If one is counted as a fan, a player or whatever, that's a number that can be exploited. A business owner may be interested in what is the current customer base.

An investor that wants to exploit something, looks at what CAN be...rather than what is. Whether it is 85 million fans, or 85 million players...those are BIG numbers, and even if someone is merely a fan...there is surely a way to exploit that.

The OGL situation that arose awhile back didn't come about simply because they were looking at who the people who bought the PHB were...in fact...the players weren't even really what they were looking at in that situation. They were looking at other numbers...the extended base as one would put it. That extended base of fans, users, or simply those who were aware of it is far larger and far more tempting to get money from than simply those who are currently going to their FLGS or other smaller numbers.

Entire RPG market at its peak makes barely 1/100th of Xbox sales.

You're not getting the differences in scale involved.

BG3 made more money in a few months retail than 5E probably has with books in 10 years.

Magic the gathering is basically selling addictive loot boxes has been since day 1.

Way things like subscription services work is to nickel and dime you and milk the whales.

Any large number like 85 million they may be including older D&D as well.

Whales apparently are around 1% of any subscription and paying users is less than 10% iirc it's closer to 5%.

Free players exist for whales to interact with and milk the whales. Depending on the game the free players exists for the whales to prey on (example game World of Tanks). Hell our clan was exactly that to milk the game for free loot. I got the premium content and account for free.

Some stupid amount of income comes from the whales as well its over 50% closer to 90% apparently.

There's horror stories of whales being milked for 10's of thousands of dollars. Loot boxes prey on parts of the brain similar to gambling addiction.
 

I personally think some VP is trying to get promoted with stating numbers like that, but that number is going to most likely cause problems that many here won't see until it probably come to a head in a year or two.

Yeah if some VP is spouting off, and has the stats (remember folks, its lies, damn lies, and statistics!) to back up this mythical 85 Million number, it will be unfortunate for them and anyone that depends on their fantastical numbers, when the reality comes crashing down.
 

Yeah if some VP is spouting off, and has the stats (remember folks, its lies, damn lies, and statistics!) to back up this mythical 85 Million number, it will be unfortunate for them and anyone that depends on their fantastical numbers, when the reality comes crashing down.

I think it's just hype for online stuff. Gets people talking.

85 million people start extrapolated and plugging in numbers.

I kind of extrapolate but only with hard numbers. Eg rpg market, book scan, sales figures. And even them it's ballpark figures.

I've seen the 6 million number idk if it's true or not but I'm fairly confident the real number isn't 3 million or 12 million.
 

I have not watched the video. And I didn’t say “crap”.
you did not say it, I did.

3773 PHBs sold in the first week, if you want the exact number, conclusion: everyone buys the digital one on DDB as they need to have outsold the 133k from Tasha according to the announcement and they clearly had next to no physical sales (the 3773 cannot possibly be the issue here…)
 


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