D&D General 50 Years. The Least Popular Class Is......

Yup. I Don't think that's the best use of illusions either. At best they hit it once and realize what's up.

They're easier for the DM NPCs I suppose.

Illusionist as controller and buffer probably better (depending on editon).
You can run into the same problem with other effects. Take Wall of Stone vs. an illusory wall, for example. You get a lot of "the guard knows this street well, he won't believe a wall that wasn't there yesterday", lol.
 

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You can run into the same problem with other effects. Take Wall of Stone vs. an illusory wall, for example. You get a lot of "the guard knows this street well, he won't believe a wall that wasn't there yesterday", lol.

Yeah it's also fair. Save required if they fail they believe the illusion but don't know how the wall got there (probably magic).
 

So Just out of interest I posted this thread about how much better Illusionists are in 2024. D&D General - Illusionists better in 2024

I’m going to be playing one in our new campaign.

Illusionist: "Ok, I'll use Phantasmal Force to have three wolves appear flanking the BBEG."

DM: "I don't know, wolves appearing out of thin air? I mean how realistic are they?
So there are a few fundamentals about illusions which people don’t understand - including players - and as a result there is a lot of wariness around them when there doesn’t need to be.

The first is that illusions (almost all of them) create an object, a creature, or some other visible phenomenon.

So straight away the idea of conjuring an image of three flanking wolves is out of the picture. You also can’t redecorate a room with the spell because you can only change one object in the room.

Now folks often try and get around this by saying their ‘one object’ is a photo-realistic painting with forced perspective and everything that makes it look like the room has been redecorated. For me that’s jank I would expect the DM to deny it because A it tried to do far more than the spell allows by a straight reading, B you can only create what you can cenceive and in a typical medieval campaign photo-realistic paintings don’t exist.

In the basis that illusions have been dramatically simplified and thus less powerful the DM should be more confident letting them do what the illusionist wants them to do. With the caveat… major illusion isn’t some catch all gotcha. It’s a tool just like every other spell. I sometimes think people expect an illusion to act as a compulsion and force a creature to act in a certain way. If you do, I think you’re asking to be disappointed.

Plausibility should be a thing. If you’re summoning a wolf in the street of a large city folks are going to be more sceptical than if you’re summoning a snarling guard dog.

The best way to think of illusions is as a con or hustle. The trick itself is only deployed when circumstance exist to support the illusion. So use your free bonus action minor illusion to make a loud sound of howling come from the corridor behind the BBEG as a distraction and then cast your illusion of the wolf.

One thing that’s worth noting is that it is much harder to disbelieve illusions now that you haven’t interacted with. Simply staring at an illusion to work out if it’s real now requires a study check vs your spell DC. Int is rarely a high stat and investigation is a rare skill in my experience.

I’ve got a fair DM in @GuyBoy who will generally let a sensible plan have a chance of success but who like me has little patience for cheap gotchas and grandstanding and encounter with a single low level spell.

My approach to illusion will be to have some simple uses for minor illusion which can help in day to day situations and then some more elaborate cons ready to go where the set up required is possible.
 
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So Just out of interest I posted this thread about how much better Illusionists are in 2024. D&D General - Illusionists better in 2024

I’m going to be playing one in our new campaign.


So there are a few fundamentals about illusions which people don’t understand - including players - and as a result there is a lot of wariness around them when there doesn’t need to be.

The first is that illusions (almost all of them) create an object, a creature, or some other visible phenomenon.

So straight away the idea of conjuring an image of three flanking wolves is out of the picture. You also can’t redecorate a room with the spell because you can only change one object in the room.

Now folks often try and get around this by saying their ‘one object’ is a photo-realistic painting with forced perspective and everything that makes it look like the room has been redecorated. For me that’s jank I would expect the DM to deny it because A it tried to do far more than the spell allows by a straight reading, B you can only create what you can cenceive and in a typical medieval campaign photo-realistic paintings don’t exist.

In the basis that illusions have been dramatically simplified and thus less powerful the DM should be more confident letting them do what the illusionist wants them to do. With the caveat… major illusion isn’t some catch all gotcha. It’s a tool just like every other spell. I sometimes think people expect an illusion to act as a compulsion and force a creature to act in a certain way. If you do, I think you’re asking to be disappointed.

Plausibility should be a thing. If you’re summoning a wolf in the street of a large city folks are going to be more sceptical than if you’re summoning a snarling guard dog.

The best way to think of illusions is as a con or hustle. The trick itself is only deployed when circumstance exist to support the illusion. So use your free bonus action minor illusion to make a loud sound of howling come from the corridor behind the BBEG as a distraction and then cast your illusion of the wolf.

One thing that’s worth noting is that it is much harder to disbelieve illusions now that you haven’t interacted with. Simply staring at an illusion to work out if it’s real now requires a study check vs your spell DC. Int is rarely a high stat and investigation is a rare skill in my experience.

I’ve got a fair DM in @GuyBoy who will generally let a sensible plan have a chance of success but who like me has little patience for cheap gotchas and grandstanding and encounter with a single low level spell.

My approach to illusion will be to have some simple uses for minor illusion which can help in day to day situations and then some more elaborate cons ready to go where the set up required is possible.

Being the evil tyrannical LE DM (trademarked) depends on the illusion spell.

Quasi real ones things get interesting.

Student of Emil Duli Wonk.
 

Being the evil tyrannical LE DM (trademarked) depends on the illusion spell.

Quasi real ones things get interesting.

Student of Emil Duli Wonk.
That is a great article!!! Just reread it.

Illusions of Grandeur in Dragon Magazine 229 if anyone has time to find it. So much good advice.
 

That is a great article!!! Just reread it.

Illusions of Grandeur in Dragon Magazine 229 if anyone has time to find it. So much good advice.

Scholar and a gentleman o7.

I think Spells and Magic had a section as well. Not 100% sure on that.

Think I'll add Emil to next campaign.
 

Yeah, we've had threads about illusionists, and a lot of people (myself included) have had a bad experience with them. It blows my mind how you can have the following situations pop up in the same game.

1-

Conjurer: "Ok, I'll cast Summon Monster Z and have three wolves appear flanking the BBEG."

DM: "Right, ok."

2-

Illusionist: "Ok, I'll use Phantasmal Force to have three wolves appear flanking the BBEG."

DM: "I don't know, wolves appearing out of thin air? I mean how realistic are they? And are they a breed of wolf native to this area? The BBEG is suspicious and (rolls dice) disbelieves your illusion."
Agreed this can be a problem.

Where the illusionist can really rock is if she's got a mage ally casting real-effect spells. Here, the mage summons three wolves then the illusionist chucks in three more just like 'em - great synergy as either the fake wolves become far more believable or the BBEG ignores the real ones (to his peril!) thinking they too are fake.

The illusionist I played for a long time in 1e did this trick once with a mage friend, only the spell was fireball cast against an army. One real, one fake, one real, one fake...repeat until everything out there was either dead or just thought it was dead. Good times! :)

In my games, over the long run the least popular class has almost always been Paladin, with Illusionist and Cavalier vying for second-least popular.
 

The BBEG in the Dragonlance novel Weasel's Luck was an illusionist. I always assumed it was based on instructions from higher up to include some of the less common classes.
 

Ah... I really like the thought of the illusionist. Such a neat idea. But, I think the way newer editions are set up, the wizard's net catches most of what is cool about the "idea" of an illusionist. Also, the illusionist tends to have it Venn Diagram intersect with psionics as well.
 

Played a couple of illusionists in 1st AD&D (with added gnome awesomeness); Ive seen them played really effective in Dragonquest and Rolemaster BUT i cant recall anyone major in that field in 3.X/PF/5th.
I may try one when we buy into 2024 sometime in 2025!
 

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