D&D General Warlocks: Charisma vs Intelligence

[Seramus]

Warlocks are not using intelligence. They're explicitly not; they bargain for their power. They are exerting their will, whether in concert or contravention with their patron. They, like Sorcerers, are "cheating" to get magic, not by studying it (Wizard/Artificer), not by achieving transcendental understanding of it (Cleric/Druid), but by benefitting from supernatural nepotism. "Do you know who my [sugar]daddy is?"

Some Warlocks research the location of buried tombs, uncover ancient secrets within them, carefully decipher the meaning of those secrets, risk going mad understanding the knowledge they have unlocked, and only then begin the process of making a pact. And that pact? It doesn't have to be persuasive or even social. It can be a well constructed devil contract, a carefully researched binding to an ancient ghost/vampire/lich, the secret how to release a grateful genie, accepting twisted knowledge and really grokking its meaning, etc.

Some patrons certainly do lend themselves more to one stat over another - I think it's hard to justify an Archfey or Hexblade taking an interest in an Int Warlock, while a Fiend, GOO, or Undead might respect Int Warlocks quite a bit (or not care in the case of GOO, and you get as much power as you can comprehend). Even the description of the Warlock itself seems to lean on the idea of knowledge over bargains (though both are valid):

"Warlocks quest for knowledge that lies hidden in the fabric of the multiverse. They often begin their search for magical power by delving into tomes of forbidden lore, dabbling in invocations meant to attract the power of extraplanar beings, or seeking places of power where the influence of these things can be felt. [...] Warlocks piece together arcane secrets to bolster their own power." And later "You have unearthed Eldritch Invocations, pieces of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability or other lessons."

The word bargain doesn't even appear until you get to the Archfey or Fiend pacts. And in the end it's just fluff. You can come up with perfectly valid reasons for why either words.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The eevee grid is actually filled. It’s just that the grid is of types that dealt special damage prior to the physical/special split.

Dragon was a Special damaging type in gens 1-3.

(If there was a dragon eevee id name it Wyveon, like Wyvern)

 

[Corinnguard]

I don't find Con caster to be a problem, especially if you have it use HP as a resource like Pathfinder 1's Kineticist.

A5E's choose it yourself approach is really great for creative players who like to theme things themselves.

I picked the Choice option because when I saw the poll options you provided up above, I immediately thought of the variable casting stat of the Elementalist class from MoAR: Complete (Purple Martin Games). That class has a useful sidebar on which casting stats could be tied to a particular element. Air- INT, WIS or CHA. Earth- WIS or CHA. Fire-INT or CHA. Water-INT or WIS.

What also influenced my choice was the fact that Fighters and Rangers can choose between STR and DEX. I like being a DEX-based martial. I prefer being hard to hit.

As for HP being a resource, I never liked that particular class feature of PF1's Kineticist class*. Being a CON-caster should involve the rules governing Exhaustion and Strife (if you are using A5e in your game). You just plain tire yourself out and become super cranky afterwards.

*The Elementalist class has something like Burn, but it was relegated to the class's Channeler archetype and renamed Power Surge.

 

[abirdcall]

I could take either Charisma or Intelligence but no others. Also, I think it needs to be one or the other, not varying by individual. I like spellcasting to have clear definition.

So I would play in the game of a DM that kept it as Cha or switched it to Int; I might grudgingly play in a game where you could choose between those two; and it would be a harder sell to get me in a game where it was looser than that.

I very much want it to be Int only but in practice in my game I would allow both b/c I don't want to tell a player they can't play the character they came up with even though I don't think it makes sense.

 

[Xeviat]

The eevee grid is actually filled. It’s just that the grid is of types that dealt special damage prior to the physical/special split.

Dragon dealt special damage too.

 

[Xeviat]

I picked the Choice option because when I saw the poll options you provided up above, I immediately thought of the variable casting stat of the Elementalist class from MoAR: Complete (Purple Martin Games). That class has a useful sidebar on which casting stats could be tied to a particular element. Air- INT, WIS or CHA. Earth- WIS or CHA. Fire-INT or CHA. Water-INT or WIS.

What also influenced my choice was the fact that Fighters and Rangers can choose between STR and DEX. I like being a DEX-based martial. I prefer being hard to hit.

As for HP being a resource, I never liked that particular class feature of PF1's Kineticist class*. Being a CON-caster should involve the rules governing Exhaustion and Strife (if you are using A5e in your game). You just plain tire yourself out and become super cranky afterwards.

*The Elementalist class has something like Burn, but it was relegated to the class's Channeler archetype and renamed Power Surge.

I wrote the Elementalist. =)

 

[Corinnguard]

I wrote the Elementalist. =)

What made you decide to convert PF1's Kineticist class for the Elementalist class in MoAR: Complete?

 

[Xeviat]

What made you decide to convert PF1's Kineticist class for the Elementalist class in MoAR: Complete?

I always wanted an Elementalist class, and since the Kineticist had some great ideas, I thought I'd start there. I had a 3E version that started with the Psionics Handbook's Pyrokineticist. Currently working on an Expanded version.

 

[Charlaquin]

Dragon dealt special damage too.

Somehow I forgot that

 

[ezo]

From some of the points made I'll re-inforce the idea that

Pact of the Tome gives you a "spellbook"
Pact of the Chain and you learn "find familiar"

Both are obviously heavy Wizard-bent in concept, so IMO simply reinforce the INT vote.

Of course, in 2024 these became Invocations it seems...