D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike

[ECMO3]

You're thinking too small. As I just stated above, the real exploit is to take 3 levels of rogue to get fast hands and then switch over to wizard. Higher level scrolls are expensive, but depending on the campaign you may not have anything else to spend your money on anyway. Cast any spell you scribed a scroll for as a bonus action and then ready to cast whatever other spell you want.

If you really want to exploit things, point out that the limit to 1 spell per round is dependent on casting a spell with a spell slot. Since you aren't using a spell slot when casting the spell off a scroll, it doesn't qualify.

We are talking about a Cantrip here. This is not some huge exploit and Cantrips are generally among the weakest magic items you can use

The entire spell slot thing was put in specifically so you could cast more than one spell turn and it applies with or without Fast Hands. Further Fast Hands will not be the most available or powerful use of using a scroll and a spell. Quicken spell will be - Cast any spell you have scribed on a scroll and then Quicken any other spell you want .... and a Sorcerer both has much higher level spells available and does not even need to use his reaction to do this!

Fast Hands was put in the game specifically to allow a Thief to activate among other things a Magic Item. This will be one of the objectively weakest uses of that ability when it comes to Magic Items, weaker than what Sorcerers can do with Quicken spell and far, far weaker than what other multiclasses can do in a similar fashion.

 

[ECMO3]

There is no action built into a spell scroll either, the only action is associated to the spell you are casting.

If it is scribed with a spell with a casting time of an action there is.

 

[StitchedSpartan]

Where does it say 'use a magic action'?

It says cast a spell and it provides benefits to casting that spell.

Casting a spell is 1 of 3 types of magic actions. Using a magic item is a separate type of magic action.

You seem to be stuck on the theme of the spell scroll being different because it 'contains the spell'.

If we are talking about the theme how does having fast hands that help with manipulating objects speed up the casting of a spell? Casting a spell from a scroll does not influence the casting time of the spell at all. So how does having fast hands allow the caster to say magical words faster?

There are not 3 types of Magic actions, and I do not understand why you keep mentioning this. There is an action called the Magic action that has multiple triggers. The predominate one is casting a spell. Each turn you spend casting a spell is also considered the Magic action. Using a magic item or feature that requires the Magic action is also included in the Magic action. If you use a magic item or feature that requires you to cast a spell (like a spell scroll) it is a magic item that utilizes the Magic action. I do not see another way RAW to interpret this.

I do not think it is too far fetched to assume that Thief was not designed with this feature in mind considering at level 13 they give them the ability to use any spell scroll and said feature would synergize with their main level 3 ability

 

[Oofta]

We are talking about a Cantrip here. This is not some huge exploit and Cantrips are generally among the weakest magic items you can use

The entire spell slot thing was put in specifically so you could cast more than one spell turn and it applies with or without Fast Hands. Further Fast Hands will not be the most available or powerful use of using a scroll and a spell. Quicken spell will be - Cast any spell you have scribed on a scroll and then Quicken any other spell you want .... and a Sorcerer both has much higher level spells available and does not even need to use his reaction to do this!

Fast Hands was put in the game specifically to allow a Thief to activate among other things a Magic Item. This will be one of the objectively weakest uses of that ability when it comes to Magic Items, weaker than what Sorcerers can do with Quicken spell and far, far weaker than what other multiclasses can do in a similar fashion.

Then we disagree. I have nothing more to add other than that it can be a powerful exploit as I explained here.

 

[abirdcall]

There are not 3 types of Magic actions, and I do not understand why you keep mentioning this. There is an action called the Magic action that has multiple triggers. The predominate one is casting a spell. Each turn you spend casting a spell is also considered the Magic action. Using a magic item or feature that requires the Magic action is also included in the Magic action. If you use a magic item or feature that requires you to cast a spell (like a spell scroll) it is a magic item that utilizes the Magic action. I do not see another way RAW to interpret this.

I do not think it is too far fetched to assume that Thief was not designed with this feature in mind considering at level 13 they give them the ability to use any spell scroll and said feature would synergize with their main level 3 ability

Yes so this also applies to the wand of the war mage.

As long as a magic action is required while using a magic item it qualifies is what you are saying.

 

[Oofta]

If it is scribed with a spell with a casting time of an action there is.

I linked to my explanation above. You don't have to accept it.

 

[StitchedSpartan]

Yes so this also applies to the wand of the war mage.

As long as a magic action is required while using a magic item it qualifies is what you are saying.

Wand of the War Mage is a constantly active buff the player receives while it is equipped, same as the Bracers of Archery, it is not an item you utilize

 

[Oofta]

Wand of the War Mage is a constantly active buff the player receives while it is equipped, same as the Bracers of Archery, it is not an item you utilize

There is no specific action assigned to either one. In both cases the PC is casting a spell while using a magic item. One adds a bonus, one prepays the cost of the spell.

 

[abirdcall]

Wand of the War Mage is a constantly active buff the player receives while it is equipped, same as the Bracers of Archery, it is not an item you utilize

You do not use the utilize action and you don't with a spell scroll either.

It is a magic item that requires you to cast a spell with the magic action to use.

It is the exact same thing.

I can't imagine that the designers want fast hands to enable vicious mockery to be cast faster. It makes no sense.

Thief Rogues using scrolls at level 13 doesn't support this. If anything they would clarify that it does work.

There is a specific trigger for the magic action that is to use a magic item and neither a spell scroll or wand of the war mage qualifies.

 

[StitchedSpartan]

There is no specific action assigned to either one. In both cases the PC is casting a spell while using a magic item. One adds a bonus, one prepays the cost of the spell.

Scrolls can allow the player to cast spells they do not know, it is not just a buff, also casting spells have an assigned action; the Magic action.