D&D General Greyhawk Humanocentricism?

[Paul Farquhar]

Are you saying you cannot dock the Sea Ghost in Saltmarsh?

Yes. They bring the goods in and out by rowboat. That's what the light signals are all about. (and yes, this is how real smugglers operated in Cornwall, which was the original inspiration for the adventure).

Where do the ships from Iuz dock and load? The dwarves mining ships? And so on.

There are none. Both groups travel overland. The Iuz "trade post" receives smuggled goods secretly rowed ashore and transports them overland (and visa versa). The dwarves (all two of them) bring metalwork in from the mountains overland and sell to the locals.

 

[Hussar]

Humanocentric makes perfect sense.

Also Saltmarsh has various docks. The dwarves also don't have any mining ships yet.

Hey, don't tell me. I'm not the one who claimed that only small fishing boats could dock at Saltmarsh.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Also Saltmarsh has various docks.

They are small jetties for fishing boats ( which would be something like 10 ft - 20 ft. long, much smaller than a cargo ship). If you notice they tend to be associated with individual cottages. Each fishing family has it's own boat and it's own dock.

 

[Hussar]

Yes. They bring the goods in and out by rowboat. That's what the light signals are all about. (and yes, this is how real smugglers operated in Cornwall, which was the original inspiration for the adventure).

There are none. Both groups travel overland. The Iuz "trade post" receives smuggled goods secretly rowed ashore and transports them overland (and visa versa). The dwarves (all two of them) bring metalwork in from the mountains overland and sell to the locals.

Sorry, but the light signals thing isn't at Saltmarsh. It's at the house a few miles down the road.

ROTFLMAO. Iuz is sending FOOD overland to Iuz.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sorry, but the light signals thing isn't at Saltmarsh. It's at the house a few miles down the road.

Indeed. You don't bring smuggled goods into the town, the customs men would have you in a shot. Do some research. At least read Jamaica Inn. Nothing but caught fish is landed in Saltmarsh itself.

^^ painting of Cornish smugglers. The goods are being brought into a hidden cave by a small skiff. The larger ship anchored off shore is visible in the background.

ROTFLMAO. Iuz is sending FOOD overland to Iuz.

No, they are sending smuggled goods (like the brandy and spirits that are found in the caves under the house). And not necessarily to Iuz. Iuz runs the operation and takes the profits. Sending fish to Iuz is a ridiculous idea, they would be rotten long before they arrived, no matter how you transported them.

Note that the original adventure is built on the assumption that their is a state that heavily taxes alcohol and the like, and devotes significant resources to making sure the tax is paid. Otherwise there is no point in smuggling. Being dumped into the Greyhawk setting isn't very consistent with that. It belongs in 17th century Cornwall. You need to bend Greyhawk a bit to make the smuggling worthwhile.

 

[Hussar]

You might want to actually read Ghosts of Saltmarsh again because what you are saying is not supported by the text of the adventure.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You might want to actually read Ghosts of Saltmarsh again because what you are saying is not supported by the text of the adventure.

The writers of the original adventure knew a lot more about the inspiration than the authors of the rewrite (the US had 17th-18th C smuggling too, especially along the New England coast, but I don't think they knew much about it*). The 5e version needs a bit of knocking into shape to make sense.

As I said, the adventure makes no sense at all unless the goods being smuggled are heavily taxed, and being caught is a significant risk. Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh is just like The Phantom Menace - it's really all about tax.


*Probably should though, high import/export taxation was a major cause of the rebellion.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Weapons are being smuggled to lizards and the Sea Princes not Iuz.

Iuz is ferrying large shipments of fish. That map has a few proper sailing ships, not just fishing boats.

 

[GrimCo]

Campaign we play for the last year or so is human only with a twist. There are magical infusions giving you traits of mythological beings ( elves, dwarfs, dragonborn etc). So you gain mechanical traits of other races, but still look like human. Real fantasy races do exist, but they are less than 1% of population. We had fair share of human only campaigns, but those are mostly my short mini campaigns based on real historical period.

In our long running game world (based mostly on Earth), it's not really human centric. Tieflings have their own empire (think Ottoman empire at their peak). Dragonborn & dragons are dominant species of Central and South America ( based on Mayan and Aztec cultures). Elves rule islands ( GB, Ireland, Sardinia, Sicily, Corsica, Malta). Gnomes have Switzerland (tinkerers). Dwarfs have Germany, Austria (Germanic culture fits them, they are Nibelungs essentially). Hobgoblins rule parts of Balkan peninsula. Halflings don't exist Human realms are rest of Europe. Oh, and most of Asia is ruled by undead empire. We didn't explore rest of the world yet.

 

[teitan]

I think the idea of Greyhawk's human-centric focus diminished in 3e, and I doubt the topic will be addressed specifically in 5e.

That said, I feel the notion of human centric design is a dying one. D&D copied it from Tolkien, which focused on human ascension as the fantasy races faded (the dwarves dying out, the elves retreating West) and the idea of humans as being less mechanically advantageous (no traits) but could achieve unlimited class advancement in any class are both more or less forgotten tropes. They were the two biggest reasons for human centric settings.

But personally I have always allowed weird options because fantasy is fantastical. As long as it's balanced.

D&D copied it from Anderson with regards to demihumans and humanocentric world view. Gygax wasn't a tolkien fan, the tolkienish elements were added because his players wanted to use them. Gygax was more inspired by Anderson, Fritz Lieber, & Howard with his approach but he was very savvy to add the Tolkien elements. He expected a humanocentric view because the demihumans in Anderson, for example, lived on the fringe between the human world and the faerie world while Tolkien's humanocentrism was built around the idea of the transitioning world as a sort of ur-myth for the modern world.