Spoilers Rings of Power is back!

[Paul Farquhar]

I have to agree with this. Sauron's been around a long time. Over the Ages he's performed many roles.

Indeed. If you look at the lore surrounding Sauron, rather than meta ideas, we learn that he is a maia, like Gandalf and the other istari. We know they have personalities, wants and needs, can fall and be redeemed, etc. At least one of them fell in love with a human and had kids. As for Sauron himself, we know that prior to the fall of Numinor he was capable of impersonating a human, and holding an intelligent conversation. Which would seem to require a personality.

We also know he is a shapechanger (not something all maia can do).

So, rather more than just an abstract representation of evil.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

They are the same thing! To be a relatable villain he needs a personality. And obviously Sauron is the central character when the story is "How Sauron made the Rings of Power". He is a villain protagonist.

I have observed a pattern where people accuse you of bad faith when they realise they have lost the argument.

Sigh. Against my better judgment..,

If I were to make a movie about the rise of Mussolini, it would not be necessary to portray him as relatable or sympathetic. There are many perspectives available.

This choice - to portray Sauron the way they did - was made by the showrunners. It is not in some way required.

All you are saying is “because the showrunners have chosen to make Sauron the central, sympathetic character in a story about the rise of Sauron, it is necessary that Sauron be portrayed as the central, sympathetic character.”

 

[Stalker0]

Indeed. If you look at the lore surrounding Sauron, rather than meta ideas, we learn that he is a maia, like Gandalf and the other istari. We know they have personalities, wants and needs, can fall and be redeemed, etc. At least one of them fell in love with a human and had kids. As for Sauron himself, we know that prior to the fall of Numinor he was capable of impersonating a human, and holding an intelligent conversation. Which would seem to require a personality.

We also know he is a shapechanger (not something all maia can do).

So, rather more than just an abstract representation of evil.

Yeah my head cannon is that as he bound himself to the ring and the unseen world he became more spirit than flesh, and as such he transformed from a person into the raw manifestation of evil we know him as later.

Which would fit with celebrimbors last words, tbst he is a prisoner of the ring.

We will see if that is how it goes

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah my head cannon is that as he bound himself to the ring and the unseen world he became more spirit than flesh, and as such he transformed from a person into the raw manifestation of evil we know him as later.

Which would fit with celebrimbors last words, tbst he is a prisoner of the ring.

We will see if that is how it goes

I was thinking the same way. He puts himself into the rings to gain power, but he gives up his personality in doing so.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm with Dr. Olsen . . . there is no canon in Middle-Earth.

Not yet, but with the drastic changes this show has given us, I wouldn't be surprised to see the orcs drag several out and begin firing them at the elves.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm still with Dr. Olsen. Outside of "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings", there really isn't any Middle-Earth canon. I don't think trying to distinguish between canon and lore "authentic to Tolkien's vision" is meaningful.

The show violates that as well. The Lord of the Rings establishes that Sauron never touched the three elven rings. Yet in the last episode Sauron touches one for quite a while. I'm sure there are other violations of canon established by The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings if I looked and compared, which I have no desire to do.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah my head cannon is that as he bound himself to the ring and the unseen world he became more spirit than flesh, and as such he transformed from a person into the raw manifestation of evil we know him as later.

Which would fit with celebrimbors last words, tbst he is a prisoner of the ring.

We will see if that is how it goes

I just finished a re-read of the Lord of the Rings, amd it is worth noting that Dauron definitely has a physical body still, it is just horrifying and nobody who has seen it has much to share, other than Gollum .rationing that Sauron only has 9 fingers. Kind of Lovecraftian, almost.

And in the Second Age, Sauron spent hundreds of years being a cool Gandalf-ish wise wanderer and teacher. The show is just extrapolating on that bit of information.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yet in the last episode Sauron touches one for quite a while

Does he? I don’t recall that. Adar had it, returns it to Galadriel, who holds it in her hand whilst fencing with Sauron. Then Elrond recovers it after she falls.

 

[Maxperson]

You can add to that list The Fellowship of the Ring. Does anyone not think that cutting Glorfindel and giving his part to Arwen, rather than having her as someone who just sits around doing embroidery did not improve on the original text?

This is a False Dichotomy. It wasn't, give Glorfindel's part to her or she just sits round doing embroidery. I had no problem with giving her a larger part and having her say and do more, but I didn't at all like giving her that one scene. They absolutely could have both done more for the role of Arwen and still had Glorfindel carry Frodo to Rivendell.

 

[Maxperson]

Does he? I don’t recall that. Adar had it, returns it to Galadriel, who holds it in her hand whilst fencing with Sauron. Then Elrond recovers it after she falls.

During the fight with Sauron he has it in his hand for a while. Long enough to corrupt it being a powerful maia.