D&D (2024) Rogues can now Sneak Attack with all thrown weapons - Tridents, Spears, Handaxes, they all work!

[Plaguescarred]

All Ranged weapons are Range weapons.

Not all Melee Weapons are Range weapons.

Sneak Attack can only be used with Finesse or Ranged weapons wether they're Range weapon or not.

 

[ECMO3]

I don't know who creates links. Probably not the game designers.

The rules are the rules regardless of who put them there.

Again. The link seems to just be wrong. Not the first time that happened on the internet.

SEEMS to be wrong to YOU (not to me any more). This perception is probably heavily biased by experience in 5E. To me this seems like a logical intentional change, otherwise why change it at all?

Moreover an error such as this is still RAW until corrected.

20 hours ago I had the same interpretation you did and so did 5 out of 6 in our gaming group. But the rules are what the rules are.

 

[MarkB]

The rules are the rules regardless of who put them there.



SEEMS to be wrong to YOU (not to me any more). This perception is probably heavily biased by experience in 5E. To me this seems like a logical intentional change, otherwise why change it at all?

Moreover an error such as this is still RAW until corrected.

20 hours ago I had the same interpretation you did and so did 5 out of 6 in our gaming group. But the rules are what the rules are.

Technically it's RAC (Rules as Coded). The written rules in the printed PHB don't have any such link.

 

[ECMO3]

Yes. But those are the weapons you actually speak of. Right there. Under the correct header.

Yes an axe is both a Melee and a Ranged weapon and only listed once on the table to avoid redundancy. It is a melee weapon because it is in the table under the melee weapon section. It is also a Ranged Weapon becuase it has a range in parentheses after the Thrown property.

A Dart is only a Ranged Weapon.

To me, it seems entirely clear what is intended here and I can explain the table in a logical way in context with the description and link of sneak attack, as well the description of "Range Weapon" found on page 214.

You can not logically explain your position except to insist it is an error.

 

[Kinematics]

A Range Weapon is a weapon with a range after the ammunition or thrown property.

Tell me where I can find this definition of Ranged Weapon that excludes those.

All "Ranged Weapon"s are "Range Weapon"s. Not all "Range Weapon"s are "Ranged Weapon"s.

And a side thought based on some other posts:

Part of me is thinking that the idea that these pages were built by people is itself an incorrect assumption. For a content delivery system like this, I'd first assume that everything possible is automated, and manual corrections are only done after the fact. That means any time the system sees a capitalized keyword like "Range", it links to the description snippet for Range.

But that's just a basic guess, as I rarely use DDB. The times I do, it's always popping up definition windows for any little thing my mouse happens to cross over, which I find irritating because they're all over the place. That's not something I'd expect someone to have done manually.

 

[ECMO3]

Technically it's RAC (Rules as Coded). The written rules in the printed PHB don't have any such link.

They still have the definition of Range Weapon.

 

[Mistwell]

And nowere does it define "Ranged Weapon" in any way that makes more sense.

You are saying "Range Weapon" is not the same thing as "Ranged Weapon" but then you are making up what a Ranged Weapon is without any sort of better definiton at all.

Your whole argument boils down to the words that are written in the PHB are not the rules because I don't like those words and think it should be this.

I was with you up until I saw there isn't a firm reliable hyperlink from the Sneak Attack definition to Range weapon.

If that's unreliable, then it makes as much sense to use table headers as it does to use the Range Weapon definition. After all, we already use table headers for some other parts of the rules. It's not like table headers have no meaning with these rules.

I can see the argument that the sneak attack rule is asking for a weapon CATEGORY (which is the table headers), where a weapon is either melee or ranged, and thrown doesn't make it a ranged weapon it just makes it a melee weapon which can make a ranged attack.

I can see the argument that the sneak attack rule is asking for a weapon PROPERTY, where a ranged weapon is one which includes either ammunition or thrown.

I think both of these views are completely rational.

I thought the confusion was broken by WOTC linking the sneak attack Ranged Weapon to the property rather than the category. But, that was just been demonstrated by @UngeheuerLichLegend to be unreliable because one version of the DNDBeyond rules has that link, and another doesn't, and I have no clue what that means or why there are two versions other than to confirm there are two versions.

So I guess my position now is I am with anyone who says they are unsure.

 

[MarkB]

They still have the definition of Range Weapon.

And Sneak Attack doesn't work with range weapons, it works with ranged weapons.

 

[Mistwell]

The distinction isn't between the paid and free version, it's between the version in the PHB and the version if you access the class independently.

If you go to Game Rules > Classes > Rogue, the version of Sneak Attack in there lacks the Ranged hyperlink.

Hrm yes that does seem to be a better explanation for the location of the two different versions.

But why would they duplicate them like that, but with a slight variation?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes an axe is both a Melee and a Ranged weapon and only listed once on the table to avoid redundancy. It is a melee weapon because it is in the table under the melee weapon section. It is also a Ranged Weapon becuase it has a range in parentheses after the Thrown property.

A Dart is only a Ranged Weapon.

To me, it seems entirely clear what is intended here and I can explain the table in a logical way in context with the description and link of sneak attack, as well the description of "Range Weapon" found on page 214.

You can not logically explain your position except to insist it is an error.

I did, just not in a way that you can unerstand. Not my fault.