D&D (2024) Do players really want balance?

[DinoInDisguise]

I'd have to buy your premise to answer the question.



Again, this requires accepting your definition of "mere opinion".

Definition of opinion because it keeps coming up in this thread for some reason.

"a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."

You are not forced to agree with me. But my "premise" is firmly rooted in the definitions of the words used, as expressed in other comments. I'm not arguing something radical here, just that the popularity and player retention are the only evidence we have, and everything else is, by definition, opinion. The definition of evidence is this;

"the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid"

Assertions that better consistency is objectively better game design is an opinion, not fact. Assertions that better balance is objectively better game design is an opinion, not fact. And the list goes on. Every assertion relating to 5e's game design, that I have seen in this thread, is very much an opinion. No evidence has been provided except the popularity and player retention in support of either side.

So maybe we, here in this thread, operate under different definitions than Oxford. But as the English language is normally used, your choices are popularity, player retention, and opinion. So when you dismiss the first two, you are solely discussing the last one. Which, in all other fields of science and law, is worse than mediocre circumstantial evidence.

So the original question remains. If we dismiss popularity and player retention as "worthless" evidence wise, does that mean we are just going to rely solely on conjecture?

 

[mikeburke]

True, but some people seem to be truly impressed with works of "art" that just don't move me. While I do like some post-impressionist work like Van Gogh, even with those there was skill and, for lack of a better term, craftsmanship to the works.

I mean, if you think someone taping a banana peel to a piece of paper a work of art more power to you. But it's still a subjective opinion.

I feel like we should perma-link to this when the next inevitable, interminable discussion about whether the art in the 2024 PHB is “good” or not shows up. #banana-peel

 

[Zardnaar]

I feel like we should perma-link to this when the next inevitable, interminable discussion about whether the art in the 2024 PHB is “good” or not shows up. #banana-peel

Art, food, beer is very subjective. So is beauty. And RPGs.

 

[mikeburke]

Art, food, beer is very subjective. So is beauty. And RPGs.

And all of them are a function of the amount of beer ingested prior. Including also beer.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

As another example, when I was younger I worked retail. One of my retail jobs was at a department store that had corporate offices above it. Sometimes the catalog photo shoot would happen at our store. One day one of the models came down to walk around the store and she stopped and flirted with me. She was pretty and there was definitely an attraction. At least up until someone's baby cried and the model said, "Don't you just hate that sound. It makes me want to drag the baby in back of the store and strangle it." Instantly all attraction was gone and I told her that I had to get back to work. Did she stop being pretty to me? No. The attractiveness was gone.

Looks of a model, hates babies, if she was a gamer too, that would be a perfect woman!

 

[Zardnaar]

And all of them are a function of the amount of beer ingested prior. Including also beer.

Kinda. You want some half decent beers to prime the pump though.

 

[mikeburke]

Kinda. You want some half decent beers to prime the pump though.

It's beers all the way down.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Kinda. You want some half decent beers to prime the pump though.

You know…it depends on the goal. Cheap macro brews on ice are…nice.

 

[mikeburke]

You know…it depends on the goal. Cheap macro brews on ice are…nice.

There you go, being subjective again. We're back to square one

 

[payn]

You know…it depends on the goal. Cheap macro brews on ice are…nice.

Beer flavored water on ice?