D&D General Greyhawk Humanocentricism?

[Azzy]

Well if they put a dragonborn nation in where a human nation used to be that would ruin it for me. If they expand the map and add one then that would be fine.

I can't see them retconning an entire nation. There's so many places to stick 'em, that there's no real need.

 

[DarkCrisis]

So I'm going to preference this with a huge IMHO.

It's just easier that way. The average D&D party is cosmopolitan. It's probably a good thing to say that represents society in large rather than being the exception. It's not like conflicts can't still happen; nationalism doesn't need to see race in order to function. Furyondy doesn't need to be overwhelmingly human to war with the Empire of Iuz.

Moreover, most species historically didn't have their own monospecies nations. There is no halfling nation or gnome nation and nobody questioned where they lived or how integrated they were in other lands. If they can just live amongst human nations, I don't see why dragonborn or goliaths can't.

Lastly, and on a personal note, the real world is so full of division based on race, gender, religion and lifestyle that it's mildly refreshing to imagine a world where that doesn't matter as much. I'm kinda over characters being hated for being born an orc, tiefling or drow by society writ large. Let hatred be a personal, rather than societal ill for a change.

IDK, I like it when say seeing an Elf is rare. It adds a special air to them or any other "special" race.

I mean, if I meet a French guy I want to talk to him. That's a rare sight in my neck of the woods.

Everyone is just plain shades of grey is BORING. Everyone is the same except for their racial trait. Zzzzzz

Big Cities like Baldurs Gate or Waterdeep. Sure not a big deal but Podunk Faerun, wow a dwarf/dragonman/aasimar! I would think that would make the player feel special for a bit.

I'm a human every single day of my life, be nice to be a little extra special on occasion in a world of elves and dragons.

IMO.

 

[Zeromaru X]

Nothing wrong with it conceptually, but I really wonder why seemingly every setting has to have every community be fully integrated and cosmopolitan? It doesn't make sense to be from a worldbuilding perspective to operate that way across the board.

I think the paradigm of fantasy world design has changed. Fantasy has been evolving a lot in 50 years, after all. Young gamers today want multicultural elements, based mostly on Isekai-type anime and video games like Final Fantasy, and that is perfectly fine —as it is fine to prefer less progressive settings, as well. However, we have to take into account that while D&D is a hobby for us, it is business for WotC, and then young generation of players are the target audience, while we are the "if this guy buys the book, it's a bonus" group.

Doesn't mean that necessarily needs to be that way. We have World of Warcraft as an example of modern fantasy with monoracial cities while still being a multicultural setting were non-humans can be relevant and not just enemies to be killed.

 

[Zeromaru X]

I haven't seen anyone telling people what species to include in their home games. As far as I can tell, publishing Greyhawk with X major species isn't imposing any idea on others, no matter what value one picks for X.

You are lucky enough to have not encountered those people on the gaming spaces you frequent.

 

[Zeromaru X]

I mean, if I meet a French guy I want to talk to him. That's a rare sight in my neck of the woods.

The problem is that in Greyhawk, people doesn't want to talk with the special guy. They want to kill him because "he is different".

 

[SkidAce]

I can't help but to wonder. When the fans of the setting are so reticent to add modern elements to the setting, the problem may as well be the setting itself.

Its just "some" of the fans.

 

[Azzy]

The problem is that in Greyhawk, people doesn't want to talk with the special guy. They want to kill him because "he is different".

Again, that's not inherent to the settings—that's just some extreme DMs.

 

[Hussar]

Its just "some" of the fans.

I believe you misplaced the quotes in that sentence about five or so characters to the left.

 

[MGibster]

I can't help but to wonder. When the fans of the setting are so reticent to add modern elements to the setting, the problem may as well be the setting itself.

I think there's something you're not considering. Only a tiny minority of D&D players are represented here at ENWorld and other online forums. In 2023, roughly 48% of D&D players were identified as Millennials. The oldest Millennials weren't even born when the World of Greyhawk Fantasy Setting was released in 1980, they were only two when The World of Greyhawk boxed set was released in 1983, and they were eight when City of Greyhawk was released in 1989. What I'm getting at is the bulk of D&D's player base these days probably didn't grow up with Greyhawk. i.e. The die-hard Greyhawk fan isn't a significant concern for WotC these days. i.e. They don't have to worry about appeasing them.

For the record, I realize WotC doesn't really much care about my opinion. I don't buy many of their books despite 5th edition being my favorite version of the game. I do have some sympathy when it comes to fans. There are some games I'm hesitant to talk about because rabid fans come out of the woodwork and aren't shy about letting you know why you're wrong.

 

[SkidAce]

I believe you misplaced the quotes in that sentence about five or so characters to the left.

I'm confused. How would that change the statement?