D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike

[MarkB]

You are correct. Usually casting a spell from a scroll is two actions. One to retrieve it. One if you cast a one action spell with it.

The thief can do it in a single turn because of fast hands.

Characters can interact with an object once per turn for free.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But why does it have to be at "virtually the same time" if it is not part of the action?

The problem is the wording of fast hand. It allows to use a magic item that requires the action. Scrolls don't require a magic action.
The allow you to cast a spell. Those spells may have a casting time of one action.

If it is not part of the action where do you get this from?

I read the ability and did not try to find a connection that is not there.

I can draw a sword and walk around with it in my hand for a minute/hour/day/week and not attack with it, I can take other actions with the sword in my hand. Why can't I read the scroll and not cast the spell right away in a similar fashion?

You can. Hold it for one round using concentration.

I really don't know what you want to prove with your example.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Characters can interact with an object once per turn for free.

That was a joke.

 

[MarkB]

That was a joke.

It didn't meet the prerequisites, I assure you.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It didn't meet the prerequisites, I assure you.

On the contrary. It just did not have the desired effect.

 

[ECMO3]

The problem is the wording of fast hand. It allows to use a magic item that requires the action. Scrolls don't require a magic action.
The allow you to cast a spell. Those spells may have a casting time of one action.

You are ignoring the question.

If reading the scroll is not part of the magic action, why can't I read it and then cast it days later?

I read the ability and did not try to find a connection that is not there.

Words matter:

"... you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time ..."

It does not say you read the scroll and then at some random time you want you use the normal casting time to cast it. It has the word "AND" reading the scroll is done as part of this.

This is crystal clear in the wording, otherwise how do you explain the meaning of the 14 words above. They are not two distinct things.

You can. Hold it for one round using concentration.

Where do you get this concentration from? Nowhere does it say you read a scroll and then concentrate on it until you cast it.

Also nowhere does it say you read it and then can use a ready action to cast the scroll. The wording in the PHB would actually prohibit this as it says "the normal casting time".. While using a reaction to cast a spell with a magic action casting time is allowed generally a reaction is not the "normal" casting time for such a spell.

You are just making new rules up to try to defend your position when it is clear how the mechanics of using a scroll work.

I really don't know what you want to prove with your example.

I want to prove it is obvious what the part on the spell scroll means and if I am to accept your interpretation that reading it is not part of the action used to cast it then you can read it any time and cast it at any later time. No concentration, no ready action, multiple PCs can read it and they can all cast it days, weeks or months later .... because why wouldn't they be able to if reading it is not part of the same action used to cast it.

You refuse to engage in this and are making up new things (like concentration) to defend your otherwise indefensible position.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You are ignoring the question.

You are ignoring cause and effect.

If reading the scroll is not part of the magic action, why can't I read it and then cast it days later?

Because that is not what is said. You read the scroll and cast the spell.

Words matter:

Yes. And logic.

"... you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time ..."

You can got to the shop and buy a beer.
First you go to the shop then you buy a beer. As long as you are in the shop.

It does not say you read the scroll and then at some random time you want you use the normal casting time to cast it. It has the word "AND" reading the scroll is done as part of this.

See above.

This is crystal clear in the wording, otherwise how do you explain the meaning of the 14 words above. They are not two distinct things.

Yes cristal clear.

Where do you get this concentration from? Nowhere does it say you read a scroll and then concentrate on it until you cast it.

Because of the ready rules. When you start casting a spell you need to concentrate until you loose it.

Also nowhere does it say you read it and then can use a ready action to cast the scroll. The wording in the PHB would actually prohibit this as it says "the normal casting time"..

Yes. Ready a spell is part of the normal casting time. Always allowed when casting. The resource you spent is lost when you start casting. In this case the scroll.

While using a reaction to cast a spell with a magic action casting time is allowed generally a reaction is not the "normal" casting time for such a spell.

I think your logic is wrong again.

You are just making new rules up to try to defend your position when it is clear how the mechanics of using a scroll work.

Yoi are the one making rules up.

I want to prove it is obvious what the part on the spell scroll means and if I am to accept your interpretation that reading it is not part of the action used to cast it then you can read it any time and cast it at any later time. No concentration, no ready action, multiple PCs can read it and they can all cast it days, weeks or months later .... because why wouldn't they be able to if reading it is not part of the same action used to cast it.

Wow. That is some kind of interpretation... good luck trying to find some DM that follows you there.

You refuse to engage in this and are making up new things (like concentration) to defend your otherwise indefensible position.

I am engaging for weeks now. You are accusing me of not answering while you don't try to understand what the logic behind is.

I think that is pretty offensive.

 

[Morrus]

@UngeheuerLich and @ECMO3, disengage, please. And don't continue to engage, then report each other, and then engage further. There's little we can do at that point other than to tell you both to cool off. Neither of you reply to the other again in this thread, please.

 

[ECMO3]

Now that we have a copy of the 2024 DMG I do want to point out that scrolls according to the DMG are both used ("using a scroll") and "activated".

This should put to rest a substantial number of the arguments against using this with fast hands and whether or not they are used and whether or not activating is a different kind of magic action.

 

[James Gasik]

Now that we have a copy of the 2024 DMG I do want to point out that scrolls according to the DMG are both used ("using a scroll") and "activated".

This should put to rest a substantial number of the arguments against using this with fast hands and whether or not they are used and whether or not activating is a different kind of magic action.

I doubt it will change many minds, but at least there's an answer.