D&D General The Human Side of D&D History - From Gary Gygax to Temple of Elemental Evil

[mamba]

No I'm not using that claim to "dispel an accusation" in any way, I explicitly asked for specific support for an accusation that was made.

Gary's original letter supports that accusation pretty well, the tweet tried to dismiss it as sarcasm, as did you, why else even bring up that tweet

 

[Vaalingrade]

That depends on what we're moving on from. If I'm being told I was excusing his sexism, I'm going to push back on that hard, because I wasn't and don't appreciate the implication that I'm a liar about this.

In this thread I didn't post about being accused of excusing his sexism. That was tossed back in my face in a response to what I did say here, which also was not an excuse for sexism. This isn't about placing blame, it's about not accepting accusations of things I didn't do.

Or you could just... stop trying to defend the 'product of his time' argument.

No one is accusing you of anything but making and defending* a terrible argument we're all tired of.

*With a 'just asking questions type justification that many of us are also sick of to boot.

 

[Maxperson]

Or you could just... stop trying to defend the 'product of his time' argument.

And you can stop calling me a liar. I said I am not defending his sexism. Telling me to stop defending his sexism is saying I'm a liar. Don't do that again.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And you can stop calling me a liar. I said I am not defending his sexism. Telling me to stop defending his sexism is saying I'm a liar. Don't do that again.

I can't do it again because I haven't done it in the first place.

Okay, let's look at what you quoted:

Or you could just... stop trying to defend the 'product of his time' argument.

Does the word 'sexism' appear anywhere in the text?

No it does not.

Because I did not say you were defending his sexism. I said you were defending the 'product of his time' argument'. Because that's what I meant to say and also literally the words I typed.

 

[OptionalRule]

I think I should have written an article "The Human Side of D&D Right Now"

 

[Maxperson]

I can't do it again because I haven't done it in the first place.

Okay, let's look at what you quoted:


Does the word 'sexism' appear anywhere in the text?

No it does not.

Because I did not say you were defending his sexism. I said you were defending the 'product of his time' argument'. Because that's what I meant to say and also literally the words I typed.

So it was a complete Strawman? I've never said anything that could be construed as a defense of "product of his time." I have in fact USED it as a method of understanding, though, and explicitly not as a defense of sexism.

 

[Steampunkette]

Your position in this thread, explicitly, has been "Sure he's sexist, but he's not that bad of a sexist. Here's a list of other things people did that were worse." (as if they don't -still- do it to this day)

Which minimizes his sexism. Which ameliorates it. Which presents it as less of an affront than it is.

Which comes across, regardless of your intention (stated or otherwise) as defending Gygax's sexism.

It's almost like saying "Well at least (insert murderer here) isn't as bad as (insert mass murderer here)" to put their crimes 'into context' would get you accused of defending (murderer).

I get that you want to "Increase Understanding" but unless the understanding you're trying to get across is "He wasn't that bad" I fear you're doing a poor job of it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So it was a complete Strawman?

Okay, so that's not how that argument works either.

 

[Maxperson]

Okay, so that's not how that argument works either.

You are attributing to me an argument that I did not make. That's exactly how a Strawman works.

 

[LordEntrails]

I don't see Gary et al as family members, but I remember I was once told; "Love the sinner, not the sins". Meaning we can treat a person with respect and dignity, while still acknowledging that they have flaws, maybe deep and troubling flaws.