D&D General “‘Scantily Clad and Well Proportioned’: Sexism and Gender Stereotyping in the Gaming Worlds of TSR and Dungeons & Dragons.”

[Vaalingrade]

Deploy the Satanic Panic Shield! Any criticism can be easily deflected by saying it's like the Satanic Panic!

Don't forget to ignore the ill treatment and weird SA fixation--someone criticized a piece of art and not for having glasses or being 'twee'. Pay attention to that! Be distracted!

Thanks for this, Steampunkette. It's easy to see singular problematic instances and miss the systematic issue.

 

[MGibster]

Spirit of the Night lol. Thought it was reasonably tasteful.

I like it. I don't think it's a great choice for the cover of Dragon, but the painting itself is fine.

How is this any different to prides and Satanic Panic telling everyone else what OK to like?

The Satanic Panic, which ran much deeper than AD&D, was based on a pack of lies. i.e. That there was widespread ritual abuse, most often sexual, of children perpetrated by cabals of satanic worshipers. People went to prison over these lies. A critque of how women have been presented in fantasy games is hardly equivalent to Satanic Panic. Nobody is telling you it's wrong to like like sexy barbarians in chainmail or fur bikinis. Have at it. But maybe when you look at how women have been portrayed in the aggregate you might see there are some problems. Or not. I guess there's room for disagreement.

 

[Demetrios1453]

When I first started playing D&D in college in the late '80s, I arrived at the intersection of those trends. The majority of the games I played were part of a larger group, a couple of dozen or so, of dorm students who all basically knew each other and were friends, and, in those long-ago pre-internet days, we had multiple games running to while away the available hours. However, there were like 4 - 5 women who were part of that group, and any given game would have at least 1 or 2 of them. So flat-out misogyny was just not seen, and if it had been, it wouldn't have been tolerated. On the other hand I did play some games with others outside that group, and some of the horrifically misogynistic things they mentioned that they did in other campaigns were just plain shocking.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I like it. I don't think it's a great choice for the cover of Dragon, but the painting itself is fine.


The Satanic Panic, which ran much deeper than AD&D, was based on a pack of lies. i.e. That there was widespread ritual abuse, most often sexual, of children perpetrated by cabals of satanic worshipers. People went to prison over these lies. A critque of how women have been presented in fantasy games is hardly equivalent to Satanic Panic. Nobody is telling you it's wrong to like like sexy barbarians in chainmail or fur bikinis. Have at it. But maybe when you look at how women have been portrayed in the aggregate you might see there are some problems. Or not. I guess there's room for disagreement.

Not, there is an absolute ton of a ripped shirtless dudes in fantasy, I can complain about that, leave the rest of us alone to enjoy chainmail bikinis and sexy sorceresses.

Conan and Hulk alone are a life time supply of muscly beef cakes.

 

[Zardnaar]

The main difference between the Satanic Panic lying about the game and the game having sexist overtones is that one is based on a complete fabrication and the other is based on what the people who designed the game said they wanted

I'm specifically talking about the Dragon cover.

 

[MGibster]

Not, there is an absolute ton of a ripped shirtless dudes in fantasy, I can complain about that, leave the rest of us alone to enjoy chainmail bikinis and sexy sorceresses.

Did someone come to your house and knock Tarnsman of Gor out of your hands? I'm one of the few people around here who actually defends the random harlot table from 1st edition AD&D, but even I can see there's a problem in how women have been depicted in fantasy gaming over the years. If you disagree, that's cool, we can have different perspectives. But don't take it personally. Nobody is attacking you for liking these things. Seriously. We had a meeting, a motion was made, we voted on it, and you are officially cool.

 

[Steampunkette]

Dudes continue to compare a masculine power fantasy with a masculine sexual fantasy as if they're equally interchangeable with feminine power fantasy and feminine sexual fantasy.

 

[Autumnal]

 

[the Jester]

I'm specifically talking about the Dragon cover.

You compared the reaction to it as too sexy to the Satanic Panic. There is a vast gulf between the two. If you really can't see how ruined lives and prison sentences are different from people speaking out against sexism, I'm not sure what to say.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Dudes continue to compare a masculine power fantasy with a masculine sexual fantasy as if they're equally interchangeable with feminine power fantasy and feminine sexual fantasy.

But look at how they behave is a woman is even remotely ripped and powerful-looking. Or full clothed and not draggin' a wagon. Or just looks like an average looking woman who exists in the real world.